"Penny Lane" vs. "Waterloo Sunset"

I was just washing the dinner dishes and listening to Kinks Kronicles, when “Waterloo Sunset” came on. And I stood there grinning and congratulating myself about putting that particular song onto each one of my “Best Pop/Rock Songs EVAH” lists.

Then I found myself wondering just why.

It’s a beautifully arranged, well-written, played and sung tune from a Brit-Invasion band, swooning with bittersweet nostalgia and longing.

Much like…the Beatles’ “Penny Lane.”

Hum. So why do I rate “Waterloo Sunset” so highly, and not think twice about “Penny Lane” ?

Am I intimidated by the supposed B-side, “Strawberry Fields Forever,” which DOES appear on my best-of lists?

Am I embarrassed to like (and highly rate) a McCartney composition? Or to admit that Ray Davies was working the McCartney side of the aisle when he wrote “Waterloo Sunset” ?

Or does “Waterloo Sunset” just beat “Penny Lane” like a big ol’ bass drum?

Discuss.

What did you have for dinner? What were you washing off the plates? That may have colored your perception. (Or, maybe, I just like hearing you talk about food.)

While it may be a sweet-sounding tune musically, Uke, the two tunes are as alike as night and day.

I printed out the lyrics and read them, and what I get from Penny Lane is a kind of “Our Town” feeling with all the nostalgic trimmings and the love of the “ordinary” yet special people one may encounter there.

Waterloo Sunset on the other hand is telling me that the singer doesn’t need that “down-home” feeling. He’s content to gaze out on Waterloo Sunset from his apartment window. He’s content to be his own"best friend". Just like Terry and Julie, he’s “in paradise”.

While I do not know you personally, maybe you like Waterloo Sunset better because you can identify with the singer/narrator.

Thanks for that thought-provoking thread, Uke!

Quasi

Penny Lane is bouncier in a way that I find annoying. It also has the McCartney narrative in which people aren’t really characters (that is, it’s not a ballad) but seem more like furniture for the song. In psychological terms, the people referred o in the song seem like “part objects” to me–they exist in the song only to meet McCartney’s needs and there’s no sense that he sees them as having a life beyond the instant when he comments on them. Waterloo Sunset, on the other hand, seems genuinely emotional and connected to the experience. If I listen to too many McCartney songs in a row, I can become enraged because of a pervasive sense I get that he is using the people referred to in the song to manipulate the listener. I’ve always found his music vapid and his lyrics profoundly impersonal, though superficially the songs are full of people.

I normally place the Kinks second to the Beatles in the ranking of British Invasion bands (and second only to the Beatles, the Kinks being better in my opinion than the Rolling Stones, the Who, and so on). But upon pondering this fascinating comparison, I must say that “Waterloo Sunset” is the superior song. I find its wistful harmonies to be much more touching than the bustling sound of “Penny Lane.” Then again, maybe Paul wasn’t going for the same sort of wistful sound anyway. I must admit that “Penny Lane” is pretty great in itself. It just loses out when compared to “Waterloo Sunset” or “Strawberry Fields Forever,” a song which manages to be frantic and psychedelic while at the same time very communicative of personal emotion. The superiority of “Strawberry Fields Forever” could be partially due to George Martin’s greater creative input (Paul usually had a specific idea of the arrangement he wanted in his head, while John was much more vague and often relied on Martin to interpret his rough suggestions for the tone of a song). Then again, I seem to recall the Anthology version of “Strawberry Fields Forever” was also damn good, and John just wrote a better side than Paul. But I don’t think McCartney lacked the ability to infuse his songs with tender emotions – I mean, listen to “Hey Jude” or something. And “Penny Lane” is by no means devoid of emotion. There’s some kind of nostalgia there, but it’s hard to describe verbally.

And part of the story is just that Ray Davies is such a genius songwriter. My other favorite Kinks song is “People Take Pictures of Each Other.” It’s amazing how Ray turns a happy little tune into something simultaneously satirical, nostalgic, and tragic. Was that the type of effect Paul was going for, or was he just being really subtle? “Penny Lane” just doesn’t hit me in the same way emotionally as the other songs I’ve mentioned. Still, I feel like McCartney is trying to convey something more complex than just happy memories of Penny Lane and doesn’t succeed to the same extent that Davies does. But damn, I would feel insanely proud of myself if I wrote a song a tenth as good as “Penny Lane.”

Waterloo Sunset just seems so uncontrived.

With Penny Lane the scenes are set for you. It’s someone’s nostalgia laid out for your appreciation. McCartney tells you about it. Davies disappears and you are there.

I’ve been collecting and appreciating Beatles music since 1964. I hadn’t heard much of The Kinks until the 1980s, when I listened to someone’s albums and decided I’d better start collecting this music. The first time I heard “Waterloo Sunset”, I was so awed by its beauty that it made me cry. Ray has this uncanny ability to write music and lyrics that touch you in a way that no Beatles composition could. It soon found its place among my favorite songs, ever. I was inspired to make a home demo of that song, playing all the guitars and singing all the voices, just to see if I could. It wouldn’t have occurred to me to do the same with Penny Lane…

If it helps the discussion, here is my own photo of a Waterloo sunset, taken on Waterloo Bridge, London, in October 2003.

http://web.longwood.edu/staff/jpeden/msboods/water%20view.jpg

I’m a wee bit biased towards the Kinks on general principles which may show in some of my posts…and the song is factual…it is paradise…

I did say I was a wee bit biased…

:slight_smile:

Chicken paillards marinated in a lemon vinaigrette and grilled. Linguine with olive oil, garlic, parsley, hot pepper, and a touch of anchovy. Cauliflower steamed with green beans, onion, and chickpeas, and tossed with homemade pesto.

Golly, these are some good answers! I have to go do gardening now, but I’ll be back later today to do some ruminating, myself.

I meant to say – I saw Ray Davies in concert about a year and 1/2 ago in Nottingham, and his last song in the set was ‘Waterloo Sunset’ – I can’t remember what he said exactly, but he said something to the effect, he couldn’t claim it as ‘his’ song anymore, as it had taken on a life of its own…he introduced it as ‘our’ song…I think he once said he wished he could be half as good as ‘Waterloo Sunset’…I believe he was so shy about the song, that when it came time to record it, he wouldn’t let the others hear the lyrics – he had them lay down the tracks and backing vocals, and he went to record the verses later on his own (the full story is in his autobiography, my copy of which is packed away upstairs.)

On its own, ‘Penny Lane’ is perky and cheerful and nostalgic for home, you might say, but I can’t imagine Paul McCartney separating himself from it, or realising the song had taken on a life of its own, if that makes any sense.

‘Waterloo Sunset’ makes me desperately unhappy that I am away from London and am unsure how I will get back there (boring personal circs); ‘Penny Lane’ makes me think of a girl in my uni composition class who once got a nosebleed trying to play a piccolo trumpet without warming up properly…hmmm…

It’s interesting to note that “Waterloo Sunset” is written in first person and “Penny Lane” is not, which may help explain why you like the song, Ukelele Ike. The narrator in one song is telling you a story directly…he’s in the middle of the experience and relating it, whereas the other is kinda omnisciently floating above all the action and not affected by anything going on in those little scenes.

In “Waterloo Sunset” you have the song’s hero cheering on Terry and Julie as they cross the river, though for whatever reason he can’t bring himself to leave his apartment and cross it himself (“Every day I look at the world from my window”). In terms of emotional tenor, it’s closer to something like “Eleanor Rigby,” except, for my money, more heartbreaking. (This is from a longtime Beatles fan and casual Kinks listener, for what it’s worth.)

Just my two cents…

I like “Penny Lane,” but yes, “Waterloo Sunset” is the better song.

As previously mentioned, “Penny Lane” is perky and cheerful, while “Waterloo Sunset” is wistful and yearning.

“Penny Lane” has a brightly-lit, middle-of-the-day feel, while “Waterloo Sunset” takes place at, well, sunset.

FWIW, if anyone’s familiar with the Madness album Keep Moving, its song “March of the Gherkins” has always reminded me quite a bit of Penny Lane, whilst “Prospects” is reminiscent of “Waterloo Sunset.”