Pentagon launches investigation of misconduct against Sen. Mark Kelly

[Marvin_the_Martian]

I’m a little confused. I thought only high ranking officers were subject to recall. Kelly qualifies because he was a Navy captain (colonel equivalent). Hegseth (major) and the vast majority of retired military (like the others on the video) are not subject to recall so not under the same threat. Am I missing something?

[Superdude]

@Atamasama

@Chisquirrel

Remember, all of Trump’s orders are legal. When the President does it, it’s legal.

The POTUS is immune to prosecution for acts taken as part of their job, but that’s not the same as everything they do being legal. For example, Trump could order a dozen people to break the law, and they’d all get tossed in jail but Trump would be unscathed.

Of course, for a sociopath that suits him just fine.

I think that @Chisquirrel was referencing Richard Nixon’s interview with David Frost, where Nixon firmly stated,

when the President does it, that means that it is not illegal, by definition

[PhillyGuy]

@Chisquirrel

The only difference is Hegseth retired from the National Guard, where the courts have generally held does not apply the UCMJ after retirement, unlike full service components.

I didn’t know that, but my trust-but-verify web search confirms it.. I wonder if Hegseth knows and trusts it. If so, my hypothesis about him hesitating to court-martial Kelly for fear of turn-about in a future Democratic administration may have been off.

Here’s what my so-called Secretary of War put on X two days ago:

“Captain” Kelly, not only did your sedition video intentionally undercut good order & discipline…but you can’t even display your uniform correctly.

Your medals are out of order & rows reversed. When/if you are recalled to active duty, it’ll start with a uniform inspection.

[iiandyiiii]

These are, almost uniformly, idiots. They’re not thinking long and hard about long term ramifications, they’re reacting in real time and panic to the perceived moods and impulses of their cult leader. They want to keep their cushy jobs and look tough on TV. That’s about as far as the deep thinking goes.

[Joey_P]

Kelly should’ve responded with. Mr Hegseth, what you need to do is dig your old uniform out of the closet, iron it, polish the medals, put it on and make sure it looks perfect. Then take a good hard look in the mirror.

[Llama_Llogophile]

I’ve never been in the military. Closest I’ve come is being an airline pilot, and of course there’s a uniform. Without exception, the few pilots I’ve met who put great emphasis on the “correct” way of wearing the uniform were pompous idiots. And a couple of them were good at wearing their uniform and not so great at actually flying airplanes.

I am repelled by people like that. Maybe it’s important in the military, but I’m much more interested in what a person can do and how they behave. Fixating on the details of a uniform seems like chickensh**t nonsense to me.

[Dewey_Finn]

@Marvin_the_Martian

I’m a little confused. I thought only high ranking officers were subject to recall. Kelly qualifies because he was a Navy captain (colonel equivalent). Hegseth (major) and the vast majority of retired military (like the others on the video) are not subject to recall so not under the same threat. Am I missing something?

I don’t think the law makes such a distinction between high-ranking officers and the rest.

[TroutMan]

I don’t know if it’s true, but there was a community note on Hegseth’s post that pointed out the picture of Kelly was mirrored.

[Slithy_Tove]

Slobbering on themselves to hang him like Admiral Canaris, with piano wire at Flossenberg Prison (or dental floss at Pianowire Prison)

[Atamasama]

@Superdude

I think that @Chisquirrel was referencing Richard Nixon’s interview with David Frost

I got whooshed.

[Love_Rhombus]

No, the letters are the right way around on NASA. He may just have a couple mixed up. Given how much he’s done, no normal SecDef should care.

[needscoffee]

@Love_Rhombus

No, the letters are the right way around on NASA. He may just have a couple mixed up.

I don’t even think Kelly would have had anything mixed up. I think Kegstand saw a photo and wrongly assumed it was wrong. Kelly does not strike me as the kind of person who would have ever made such an error.

[kenobi_65]

This AP article on the case quotes a number of legal experts, including retired JAG lawyers, as saying that Hegseth really doesn’t have a case against Kelly, for various reasons.

Colby Vokey, a prominent civilian military lawyer and former military prosecutor, said Hegseth appears to be misreading the Uniform Code of Military Justice to justify the Kelly investigation.

Vokey said Hegseth has personal jurisdiction over Kelly because Kelly is entitled to retirement pay. But Vokey said Hegseth lacks subject matter jurisdiction because Kelly made his statements as a senator.

Vokey said case law has evolved to where the military can prosecute an active-duty service member for a crime committed off base, such as robbing a convenience store. But applying military law to a retired service member and “assuming that means every offense ever is kind of a ridiculous conclusion.”

“Let’s say you have a 100-year-old World War II veteran who is retired with pay and he steals a candy bar,” Vokey said. “Hegseth could bring him back and court-martial him. And that in effect is what is happening with Kelly.”

Patrick McLain, a retired Marine Corps judge and former federal prosecutor, said the cases he has seen of retirees being called back “are more like extreme examples of fraud or some of these child pornography cases.”

“I’ve not seen anything like the kind of the wackadoodle thing they’re trying to do to Sen. Kelly for essentially exercising his First Amendment right to free speech, which they don’t like,” McLain said.

Charles Dunlap, a Duke University law professor and retired Air Force lawyer, said in an email that military law can restrict speech for service members that is protected for civilians under the First Amendment.

But even if the video was found to have violated military law, a key issue may be whether the law can be applied to someone who is retired, Dunlap said.

A group of former military lawyers, the Former JAGs Working Group, said in a statement that Kelly did not violate the Uniform Code of Military Justice.

“The video simply described the law as it pertains to lawful versus unlawful orders,” the group said. “It did not suborn mutiny or otherwise encourage military members to disregard or disobey lawful orders issued to them.”

Kelly’s status as a senator could block the Pentagon’s investigation because of constitutional protections for the separation of powers in the U.S government.

The Constitution explicitly shields members of Congress from White House overreach, said Anthony Michael Kreis, a constitutional law professor at Georgia State University.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that Hegseth and Trump won’t try.

Experts doubt the Pentagon can punish Kelly over the 'illegal orders' video

[Son_of_a_Rich]

I hope Kegbreath will be occupied with investigations into his orders to murder the survivors of one of those blasted boats.

[Dewey_Finn]

Who is going to investigate that? Certainly not the Republican-controlled Congress.

[Smapti]

@Dewey_Finn

Who is going to investigate that? Certainly not the Republican-controlled Congress

Actually…

Wicker Directs Inquiry Into Hegseth's Reported 'Kill Them All' Order, Vowing...

[Dewey_Finn]

Okay, perhaps I don’t give enough credit to Congress. The Washington Post reports (gift link)

Late Friday, Sen. Roger Wicker (R-Mississippi), the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, and Sen. Jack Reed (Rhode Island), the committee’s top Democrat, issued a statement saying that the committee “is aware of recent news reports — and the Department of Defense’s initial response — regarding alleged follow-on strikes on suspected narcotics vessels.” The committee, they said, “has directed inquiries to the Department, and we will be conducting vigorous oversight to determine the facts related to these circumstances.”

The leaders of the House Armed Services Committee, Rep. Mike D. Rogers (R-Alabama) and Rep. Adam Smith (D-Washington), followed suit late Saturday. In a brief joint statement, the pair said they are “taking bipartisan action to gather a full accounting of the operation in question.” The committee, they noted, is “committed to providing rigorous oversight of the Department of Defense’s military operations in the Caribbean.”

[aurora_maire]

@Dewey_Finn

Okay, perhaps I don’t give enough credit to Congress.

Sure, they can a hold hearing. They have held hearings with just about every cabinet member. They will get what they always do, what this administration excels at - not a single straight answer and Hegseth making a mockery of the procedure.

[Atamasama]

@aurora_maire

They will get what they always do, what this administration excels at - not a single straight answer and Hegseth making a mockery of the procedure.

I hold out hope that this is bad enough that they might end up making Hegseth into political cannon fodder. Trump would just replace him with another loathsome unqualified lickspittle, but at least seeing Whiskey Pete go down might be satisfying.

[Son_of_a_Rich]

I would have never thought in a million years that premeditated murder wouldn’t be grounds for impeachment. Marty fucked up this timeline bad.