genie:I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a short period of time to pay last respects, even in a school.
I agree. I’ve often participated in a “memorial minute” to honor a fellow-student’s or colleague’s memory. Not difficult: ideally, you use the time for true serious reflection, but just standing quietly and not wearing any blatantly inappropriate expression (e.g., giggle fit) gets you full marks. A gracious and civilized custom.
That’s one reason it was so annoying when lots of religious folks started pushing for the regular daily observance of an MOS as a thinly-disguised substitute for school prayer. Great, now you’ve got everybody all up in arms over the whole concept—and what’s more, they try to blame the controversy on those who disagree with them. Like donotprodme’s characterization of people as “bitch parents” merely for objecting to public schools’ promoting religion. I hope donot grows up to think more carefully about these issues in the future.
I must be from the wrong part of the country, Kimstu. I’ve never heard of a daily MOS. What’s the point of the that? That’s stupid, and yes, a thinly disguised attempt at daily school prayer.
(Why can’t kids just pray on their own, in their heads, if and when they want to, without people telling them when and how? How difficult is this concept? Why should a school tell me to pray? I can do it myself, thank you, without anybody noticing.)
There’s a difference between the moment of silence to comemmorate a departed classmate/faculty member and the daily ritual the Religious Right want forced on the captive school children.
For the comemmorative one, no problem. One could even open that up to comments from the assembled class and if the departed person was religious, then comments about their faith sustaining them, etc., aren’t witnessing but rather descriptive.
The daily ritual is one in which I would have to stand and sing “Imagine” loudly and, I hope, with others joining me.
genie:I must be from the wrong part of the country, Kimstu. I’ve never heard of a daily MOS.
Lucky you! State or local legislatures in Virginia, Georgia, Kansas, and Mississippi—and probably several others—have all enacted laws requiring this in the past few years, and there has been a lot of turbulence as the laws have been challenged in the courts. From a 2000 press release,
So there you go. The purpose of a daily MOS is to “instill values and reduce violence.” Of course, no shred of evidence has been presented that it would actually do so, but there are an awful lot of people out there who really believe that having officially sponsored prayers in school is the answer to social problems.
I agree that the MOS is simply a substitute for the “school prayer” that used to be standard in public schools. It wasn’t really prayer. I don’t see how anyone can claim that it was. Each AM, the kids would recite something in unison. “Religious recitation” would be a more honest description. The point to the custom was to send a message that the right, regular, normal, choice was to be a Christian. Christian kids were meant to feel a sence of normalcy and belonging; non-Christian kids were meant to feel uncomfortable.
It’s so plainly nonsensical to claim that either a religious recitation or a MOS could possibly “instill values and reduce violence,” and it’s so totally absurd to claim that such things could possibly solve social problems that I just can’t believe that anyone really believes it. The pro school prayer people want to put a big, official looking “government approved” stamp on their religion. They want the schools to promote the idea that one is supposed to be Christian; that it’s somehow automatic for all regular Americans to be Christians.
Oh, and by the way, donotprodme, it’s a good idea to choose for your thread a title that gives some indication of your topic.
People are Dumb would be a fine title if your opening post concerned the general topic of how dumb people are, gave examples, and invited others to do the same. (IMO this would not be a great debate, however.) For this thread, a better title might have been something along the lines of It’s Dumb to Oppose a Moment of Silence.
This has always been a very simple matter to me: There is a place for education. It’s called a school. There is a place for prayer and religion. It’s variously referred to as church, temple, synagogue, mosque, etc.
I am not allowed to march into your synagogue and inflict a “moment of logic.” I can not take over the church podium and give a lesson on Shakespeare’s MacBeth. That is because it’s a special place for a special purpose. Much like SCHOOL is a special place for a special purpose. That purpose is not prayer.
I agree with those who said that a moment of silence intended to remember the lost or honor survivors is a fine thing. But I also agree that this is a VERY thinly veiled attempt to force kids to pray in a secular situation. For the most part, people are NOT stupid, and thus they recognize the moment of silence as just such an attempt.
Why assume the OP meant “faggots” in a derogatory way? Perhaps he loves faggots - I know I do. Oh, I’m drooling now. Mmmm, those lovely heavy balls, full of goodness.
I am not sure that a moment of silence forces kids to pray. If anything, I would say that a moment of silence is an excellent secular way to reflect on something, and so is perfectly suited to schools.
A person can use the silence as they wish: for prayer to whichever God they recognise, or just to think.
I am not religious, but I respect the silence on Remembrance Day in the UK. It gives me time to dwell on the sacrifice made by soldiers; I do not see it as religious in any way.
Well, I agree. On the surface, I think beginning the day with a bit of silence from our students is a fine idea.
But the language in the ridiculous OP (“If you have a problem with god,” et al) suggests that this poster is, indeed, trying to force prayer on people who aren’t interested. Had the question been posed in a manner that indicated the moment of silence was truly just for SILENCE and not prayer, I would have answered it differently.
Can’t argue with that. I have to admit that I pretty much ignored the language in the OP for obvious reasons, and boiled the debate down to a more civilised “Should we have a moment of silence in schools?”.
Problem is, as we have discovered, that trying to find the point in the OP is a tricky game.
I read the OP as “If you don’t want to pray, then don’t.” The point is, he seems to see the moment of silence as a moment for prayer (could be wrong though - who knows?), whereas I would say that it isn’t necessarily. Parents who fear that the silence is religious are being irrational.
You know what - I have no idea if that agrees with the OP or not. Maybe donotprodme might enlighten me? All I do know is that I think I do agree with SexyWriter (cool name, by the way).
The modern Roosevelt dime does not have a fasces on the reverse. It has a torch with two baby trees on either side of it.
The old winged Liberty head or “Mercury” dime did have a fasces on the back (with an axe head sticking out of one side, a la the ancient Roman fasces), but that kind of dime hasn’t been minted since 1945.
