People Who Don't Know What A Billion Is

[Baron_Greenback]

@Kimballkid

Is a billion more than a fuckton?

Yes, but only by a bawhair.

[kaylasdad99]

@CalMeacham

This is not a joke, but a for-real distinction. Used to be that what Americans called a “billion” the British called a “Milliard”, and they used “billion” for what Americans called a “trillion”.

So, what do they mean nowadays, when they say “Milliard?”

'Cos if they’re not using it, I’ma steal it and repurpose it so it means the stupid duck in the Mallard Filmore comics, except he’s put on so much weight that he’s now morbidly obese.

I’m talking Mr. Creosote obese.

[pulykamell]

@levdrakon

When watching astronomy documentaries hosted by Brits, I’ve noticed they prefer to say “thousand million” over “billion.”

My assumption is to avoid confusion, since “billion” has two different meanings in the UK, depending if you’re talking long- or short-form numbers. Current nomenclature has gotten with the US system (short form).

Out of curiosity, when did the nomenclature shift over? (And I mean that generally; I know it’s not like everyone one day woke up to learn that “billion” now means 10^9 instead of 10^12.)

[CalMeacham]

@kaylasdad99

So, what do they mean nowadays, when they say “Milliard?”

'Cos if they’re not using it, I’ma steal it and repurpose it so it means the stupid duck in the Mallard Filmore comics, except he’s put on so much weight that he’s now morbidly obese.

I’m talking Mr. Creosote obese.

To quote from the Wikipedia page on it:

The term milliard can also be used to refer to 1,000,000,000; whereas “milliard” is seldom used in English,[5] variations on this name often appear in other languages.

1,000,000,000

So go ahead and use it in English, if you want. It has a residual cachet and ambiguity. Kinda like saying “Leagues” for distance.

[levdrakon]

@pulykamell

My assumption is to avoid confusion, since “billion” has two different meanings in the UK, depending if you’re talking long- or short-form numbers. Current nomenclature has gotten with the US system (short form).

Out of curiosity, when did the nomenclature shift over? (And I mean that generally; I know it’s not like everyone one day woke up to learn that “billion” now means 10^9 instead of 10^12.)

What I foundon Wikipedia is in 1974

British prime minister Harold Wilson (1916–1995)

British prime minister Harold Wilson explained in a written answer to the House of Commons that UK government statistics would from then on use the short scale.[7] Hansard,[6] for the 20 December 1974, reported it

Mr. Maxwell-Hyslop asked the Prime Minister whether he will make it the practice of his administration that when Ministers employ the word ‘billion’ in any official speeches, documents, or answers to Parliamentary Questions, they will, to avoid confusion, only do so in its British meaning of 1 million million and not in the sense in which it is used in the United States of America, which uses the term ‘billion’ to mean 1,000 million.

The Prime Minister: No. The word ‘billion’ is now used internationally to mean 1,000 million and it would be confusing if British Ministers were to use it in any other sense. I accept that it could still be interpreted in this country as 1 million million and I shall ask my colleagues to ensure that, if they do use it, there should be no ambiguity as to its meaning.

The BBC and other UK mass media quickly followed the government’s lead within the UK.

Can’t remember when I became familiar with billion, but I sort of remember when I started hearing trillion more frequently.

These days in the age of Facebook games that frequently deal with really large numbers, I’ve gotten used to trillions and quad, quin, sex, sept, oct, non and dec-illions. Who says video games aren’t good for the brain?

[APB]

@Jefferson

Just a reminder, my question is: Would you expect these people to know what a billion is?

Not necessarily. Christine Hamilton is in her late sixties, so the definition has changed since she reached adulthood. Mark Little is Australian, so is entitled to be confused. Even Matthew Wright is old enough for the definitions to have been in flux when he was at school. Also, you’re talking about The Wright Stuff. Not exactly were one would look for informed comment on, well, just about anything at all. It’s not In Our Time, is it?

But I would expect any well-informed Brit to know that the definition changed within living memory and that therefore the question isn’t entirely straightforward.

[HMS_Irruncible]

@pulykamell

In other European languages (at least in French, and it looks like it might be an obselete usage in English), yes, 10^15 was billiard, and 10^21 was trilliard, and so on.

Technically in French it is a “sixty-nineteen-of-four-twenties-audrillard”. One of many reasons I gave up the language.

[eschereal]

Someone once told me the universe contains exactly one sagallion galaxies. It is a very large figure, like “sverdrup” except a little less precisely defined.

[Riemann]

Re levdrakon’s post, I was born in the UK in the 1960’s, and I agree that the usage for 10^12 is completely obsolete. I was only aware of it because my father told me about it, and I never encountered it.

So far as I know it’s completely obsolete everywhere, and I think the Wiki page is misleading.
Does anyone have a cite for an example of actual usage to mean 10^12 in any context in the past 25 years?

(And, with regard to the OP - I really would expect anyone with an education over the age of about 12 to know what it means, and I would find it bizarre if they did not.)

[snfaulkner]

While I agree that anyone who passed grade school should absolutely know what a billion is, I have met some soap actors…Dumb. As. Rocks.

[pulykamell]

@APB

Not necessarily. Christine Hamilton is in her late sixties, so the definition has changed since she reached adulthood. Mark Little is Australian, so is entitled to be confused. Even Matthew Wright is old enough for the definitions to have been in flux when he was at school. Also, you’re talking about The Wright Stuff. Not exactly were one would look for informed comment on, well, just about anything at all. It’s not In Our Time, is it?

But I would expect any well-informed Brit to know that the definition changed within living memory and that therefore the question isn’t entirely straightforward.

Yes, but the answers don’t seem to reflect a confusion between the deprecated and current definitions. 100 million?

[Ambivalid]

@Jefferson

Just a reminder, my question is: Would you expect these people to know what a billion is?

Left-wingers?? Of course not.

[Grumman]

@jtur88

Wait til you get to India and they start talking (in perfect English) about lakhs and crores.

One lakh = 100,000. One crore =100 lakh = 10,000,000. Usually rupees, but can be for any countable.

Japan (and apparently China) do something similar, working in powers of 10^4 instead of 10^3.

[Nawth_Chucka]

@Ambivalid

Left-wingers?? Of course not.

Much like right-wingers don’t know what a clitoris is.

[Evan_Drake]

@Jefferson

Just a reminder, my question is: Would you expect these people to know what a billion is?

Not exactly. If you change the definition of anything, you must expect confusion for the next 100 years. That is a general rule.
It seems one of the worst decisions Harold Wilson ever made.

Because of the change to the inferior American value I generally avoid a loaded term such as ‘billion’ and prefer to write/say ‘a 1000 million’ or ‘a million million’ to make it clear what I mean.
And make a quick calculation when reading old books.

[eschereal]

We all have a reasonable understanding of what kilo-, mega-, giga-, tera-, peta- and exa- mean, though.

[Evan_Drake]

@Jefferson

I was watching the Wright Stuff this morning and the far-Left ex-soap actor Mark Little when reviewing the papers asked what a billion was, enquiring if it was a thousand million. Matt the Left-wing host, said it was a hundred million. Christine Hamilton said it was certainly a lot of money. A female Labour MP didn’t add anything to speak of (but may have muttered it’s a lot).

Would you expect these people to know what a billion is? At least the host who has been doing the job for 15 years and the politician.

Maybe the actual proper takeaway from this OP is that leftists are idiots.
touches brim of cap respectfully “Lesson learned, guv; it’s true-blue all the way for me an’ my mates from now on. Gawd bless Mrs. May.”

[kambuckta]

When I was a wee Aussie kid, a billion was a million x a million. I understand it did change sometime in the last 50-odd years, so that now it means a thousand x a million.

I’m a bleeding-heart leftie Marxist.

Does that help?

[Jefferson]

@APB

Not necessarily. Christine Hamilton is in her late sixties, so the definition has changed since she reached adulthood. Mark Little is Australian, so is entitled to be confused. Even Matthew Wright is old enough for the definitions to have been in flux when he was at school. Also, you’re talking about The Wright Stuff. Not exactly were one would look for informed comment on, well, just about anything at all. It’s not In Our Time, is it?

But I would expect any well-informed Brit to know that the definition changed within living memory and that therefore the question isn’t entirely straightforward.

Clearly age is NO excuse. The term billion is used every day. CH is not a politician herself but her husband is and she works for him and pontificates on politics. Matthew Wright most weeks spends 3 hours a day, for the past 15 years most weeks discussing various issues. He is constantly talking about “billions” when demanding the Government spends more (and so on).

[The_Stainless_Steel_Rat]

well, let’s see what Jefferson is on about.

@Jefferson

I was watching the Wright Stuff this morning and the far-Left ex-soap actor Mark Little when reviewing the papers asked what a billion was, enquiring if it was a thousand million. Matt the Left-wing host, said it was a hundred million. Christine Hamilton said it was certainly a lot of money. A female Labour MP didn’t add anything to speak of (but may have muttered it’s a lot).

Would you expect these people to know what a billion is? At least the host who has been doing the job for 15 years and the politician.

So, “far-left Mark Little” asked if it was a ‘thousand million’, which is correct in current usage, and given that this program is apparently in Britain, understandable given the official change but still-used different meaning as mentioned above. Matt, the Jefferson-described "left-wing’ host, was wrong by calling it a hundred million, while Ms. Hamilton was imprecise by saying “a lot of money” but certainly not incorrect…at least for me, a billion is a lot of money.

So, some folks on a program few of us outside the British Isles have ever heard of are imprecise on the value of a billion, and this somehow proves something? I am not impressed.

I am impressed that the SDMB membership turned it into a learning session regarding the milliard and changes in the British meaning of billion over the years to the point of frustrating ol’Jefferson to nag us to respond to him…well done, all.

IMHO as always. YMMV.