According to Genesis, the punishment for sin is death…nothing said about losing one’s soul, or eternal punishment!
Why didn’t Jesus write a Book and see to it that all people would know the correct translations? He must have been smarter than that! He is quoted as saying many things that contradict each other. Like the rich young man who was said to have been told,when asked how to gain eternal life, was told to sell all he had then follow Jesus!
This brings up the question of why Jesus was said to speak in parables, according to the NT He said he spoke in parables lest some (of the Jews) understand and convert! Doesn’t sound like Jesus was interested in everyone being saved. He also told the woman who was asking him for help, that he only came for the house of Israel!
In the real world, I’m glad they don’t. We do have interesting religious discussions occasionally, but we don’t try to convert each other.
I’m just saying that if they truly believed I or anyone else was destined for eternal suffering, then it is their duty to IMO to help others avoid it.
If someone approached me like in the Penn Jillete video above, I would at least respect that truly were living what they said they believed. I’d still think they were full of BS and hope they’d grow up some day.
Now if they were aggressive, accusatory, spouting fire and brimstone nonsense or various Bible verses frequently, then that would end the friendship.
No. Jesus specifically said that all the other commands hung on those two commands. Likewise, Galatians says only that all the commands (again, plural) are summed up in one. Both of them assume the existence of other commandments. For them to be summed up as one, or for two of them to be the most important, there must be more than one or two.
And, really, what you are saying is a tautology. Jesus says you must love God, and to love God, you must follow his commands. If his only command was to love God, that would be like a dictionary saying “angry: see mad” and “mad: see angry.” Is that really your learned opinion as a biblical scholar? That everyone was just writing meaningless drivel? Where’s the integrity of preserving the author’s intent?
If those were all the commandments, then there would be no reason to write the rest of it. We’d just have a bunch of stories and a two line addendum telling us what we should do. No, the rest of the commandments are clarifications and specific implementations of the first two.
Oh, and Monavis is showing us another reason why people proselytize: There are just people out there that just want to win arguments. Why else would s/he be nitpicking people’s explanations? Do you really think any Christian is stupid enough to not know that the Bible was written by men? And, after 2000 years, do you think you can bring up something that hasn’t been thought of before? Do you really think you’re fighting ignorance here?
Oh, and Jesus was reported to say (a part you hypocritically left out) to his disciples that, now that he was dead and risen, it was okay to explain the parables. If you were reading the book for comprehension, and not to play a gotcha game with Christians, you’d know that.
And, yes, I know you’re going to jump on me for not covering the death thing, but it’s more complicated, and I’m late for bed. I’d offer a link, but for some reason I can’t paste. Stupid Firefox beta.
Both of those are saying that all of God’s law just boils down to the Golden Rule. All the rest, as Rabbi Hillel said, is commentary.
Jesus said that to love god, you have to love your neighbor. That is the only commandment.
His only command is to love your neighbor. He said that loving your neighbor is how you love God.
There are an abundance of authurial intenmts in the Bible, some of them quite at cross purposes, but in the words attributed to Jesus, he said there was only one real rule – love your neighbor.
because the explanations don’t make sense or justify the harassment of religious proselytization.
This can’t be a serious question. Have you ever met a fundy? I assure you that the world is full of Christians would would vehemently deny that the Bible had any human authorship. If you don’t know that, then that shows a lack of education on your part. I grew up around people who thought exactly that way.
It’s been my experience that a lot of lay Christians are, in fact, completely unaware of a lot of the theological problems with their own religion, but even if they weren’t, you’d think that after 2000 years, at least one Christian would have been able to convincingly answer those problems by now. What does it tell you that they they still can’t?
Absolutely.
Note - I am no longer religious…but I used to be.
It could be that they really don’t care…that you are not worth the bother.
It could be that they really, truely do not believe their own religion. I think this is the heart of the manner for many…how else can you explain the neighbor that hits my wifes car then denies it to the insurance company? Doesn’t she know she broke commandments? Doesn’t she know that if she dies at this time she will spend eternity in hell from her mortal sin? Most likely, she believes she can be forgiven while at the same time causing damage to others that she could easily rectify…i.e. she is not a Catholic even though she says/believes she is.
What is also possible is that your friends really do care. They are just waiting for the right moment to strike. If they are in your face continually you will not listen to them and become hardened to what they say…but if they wait…then God will provide an opportunity to strike his message home with you. They are waiting for that moment.
This.
I believe I mentioned, either in this thread or somewhere else, that I have a Book of Mormon on my shelf courtesy a door-to-door proselytizer. While I’m a Christian, and content with my Christianity, I also have a curious mind of the world about me (reason numero uno I’m a Doper) and I like to talk with those of other religions to know more about them (again, I can do that here so I’m a Doper), and hopefully they know more about my religion - yes Christianity is the dominant religion in the Western World, but there’s scads of misconceptions about it thanks to the vocal minority of Christians who are our public face. Usually they listen to me as I listen to them and we each learn something in the process. Or, they’re Diogenes.
What’s that supposed to mean?
While I suspect that many church-goers doubt their faith, I wonder if a lot of the hypocracy you describe is because most people – whether religious or not – think they are the good guy.
“I sometimes bend the rules because I have no choice, or for the greater good. I’m not like those jerks who lie and cheat for no reason”.
It sounds like maybe they are doing exactly what they feel is most conducive to your eventual (possible or otherwise) conversion - that is, trying to remain your friend, whilst being examples of religious people who are not assholes.
What I mean is, even if your conversion is their goal, it’s hard to see what they could be doing that would be more effective than what they are currently doing.
If people know the Bible was written by humans, called the word of God by humans, they they should know that God didn’t have any say in it, just people call it the word of God,or that God inspired it!
In what quote did the Gospel writer say Jesus told them it was okay to explain the parables? Again no one can say in truth that Jesus said anything it is the work of the writers. It was after I read the book for Comprehension that I realized it wasn’t God’s word any more than the Koran or other religious teachings.
While I agree with you overall…I think there is another element with people like the neighbor.
I think religion has gotten wussie over the past few years. The ‘fear of God’ is gone…they don’t believe that even though they committed several mortal sins that they could easily rectify that all they need to do is to pray to God and be forgiven. They don’t really believe they will go to hell (even though it is explicitely said in Catholic mythos) because ‘God loves them and he would never do that to me’ because (like you say above) ‘I am a good person at heart’.
The Catholic religion I was brought up in was ‘you cannot fool God’. If you commit a mortal sin thinking you will just go to confession and get it wiped away then you are damned. That sin will not be washed away until you are genuinely contrite…and that means rectifying the damage you did as best you can.
The religion I grew up in…God was someone to fear (though he llooovvveeeesss you) and angels were not something you necessarily would like to meet. This fear seems gone these days.
All religions,even the Catholic one, was started by humans, and they just claimed as all do, that they had the permission to speak for God!
Nicely done, BigT. I think this clinches it.
Jesus says “to get into Heaven you’ve gotta love me!” Elsewhere he repeatedly defines loving him as synonymous with obeying him. Whatever other definition for love you have is irrelevant because he tells you right there what expectations he has for your “love” of him.
Religious people tend to be illogical and thus are prone to the bandwagon fallacy and thus they feel the need for other people to jump on their bandwagon to feel secure about their beliefs. :þ
/Tongue-in-cheek
Unfortunately, a lot of people even misinterpret the simple command “love me”. “Oh, if I love Jesus, I must hate the gays/dark people/Jews” etc. (Apologies if the words in the previous sentence offends, but it didn’t sound right without writing it in “redneckese”. Jesus is made after their image, not who He actually was. If God is outside and we are inside, Jesus is the portal through which we see God. We can either make Jesus a pane of glass, making Him a window through which we see God, or a mirror, through which we see ourselves rather than God. Too many choose the mirror route.
Buddhists don’t believe in Hell – at least, not a Hell that is eternal (though you can stay in Naraka for literally billions of years) and not a Hell that you go to for not being a Buddhist. Nevertheless, the Bodhisattva’s Vow includes the words, “However innumerable sentient beings are, I vow to save them.” “Save” meaning “guide to enlightenment through Buddhism,” presumably. Since “sentient beings” includes everything down to microorganisms, you can see what a major commitment that is!
Nitpick: There is one religion that was not started by humans. (We only look like humans.)
In almost all (surviving) versions of Christianity, Jesus is God.