Shagnasty was right about genocide. The majority of people don’t care about it unless they are the target of it. Nobody cared when the Armenians were being exterminated, except the Armenians. Nobody cared when the Ukranians were being systematically starved to death, except the Ukranians. Nobody gave a shit about the Jews, except the Jews. In more recent times, very few people give a shit about killing going on as you read this.
Since you care so much, what did you personally do about any of the ethnic cleansings that flamed up in eastern Europe after the fall of the Soviet Union? What did you personally do about any of the butchery in Africa? What did you do about any of the murder in the Pacific? What did you personally ever do about any killing anywhere?
You don’t really care; or you only care to the point where you can shake your head ruefully over how evil “some people” are. Then you go back to drinking your non-fat soy orange-mocha frappacinno and caring more about the death of Heath Ledger. You don’t really hold the morality you claim in this thread you do.
I don’t hold that morality either, but I don’t insist on lying to myself and others that I do. Apologies and kudoes to anybody who has actually personally done something signifigant in terms of personal effort and risk. There are a few people like that in the world. I just don’t think any of them are participating in this thread. They’re busy doing something more signifigant than bleating about their beliefs in an internet thread.
I said your views lend credence to the idea that you and your neighbors are too insane to live. I never said that belief was right.
But let me say this. Israel and the entire Middle East insanity is bringing this world down. It is the reason why Islamic terrorists have targeted the US and will continue to go after us. My children may be killed because of the actions of your country. Under your logic, I’d be perfectly justified in wiping you out since you represent a threat to my survival and that of my children. So why shouldn’t I support the nutjobs who want to blow up Israel? Why shouldn’t I fear what your country does in the future?
Convince me why people shouldn’t hate you as much as you hate your enemies.
Sure it can. Some guy has threatened to kill you and he’s poiinting an assualt rifle at you. You have a weapon too, but its also a high poered rifle, its set to auto fire and if you pull the trigger the rounds will tear him to shreds. Firing will be in self defense. Your choice is simple…let him kill you or you have to kill him since he’s already indicated that he’s going to kill you.
its up to your own morals and such, and if you wouldn’t fire, hey, you stuck to your morals. Personally, i’d shoot, not because i’m the bestest guy in the world, but because I want to live.
OK, right? That’s what I want to know.
Also, because there is apparently some confusion on this issue, yes, this thread does have an OP. It is conveniently located at the top of page 1 of the thread, and was written by yours truly. I hope this helps.
Well, I put myself on the line between an attacker and someone being attacked, an I ended up with 70 stitches because of it. Whether that qualifies me or not as worthy on your mind, though, I don’t really care. And how that qualifies me to reply to your posts, or doesn’t, I don’t understand.
Your posts, the ones that inspired this thread, were about killing innocent strangers to protect your child. Not about war, not about genocide, not even about self-defense. I certainly wouldn’t argue that you have the right to use lethal force to defend against someone who is attempting to kill you or others.
This thread, as started, was about killing innocents to save other ‘more important’ innocents – more important to you. Am I misinterpreting this? Can you specify any circumstances where you believe it would NOT be right to kill someone else’s child in order to save your own? If not, that makes you really fucked up.
I’ve explained this several times in both threads, but I’ll go through it again as simply and briefly as possible. I value the lives of me and mine more than I value the lives of strangers. Therefore, IF it is necessary to perform action x to attain the continued survival of one of mine, THEN I will perform action x even if it means some other people will lose their lives. The closer they are to being complete strangers to me, the easier it will be to perform action x.
I see that now - sorry, it was right after my post. Carry on…
So do I, and in the heat of the moment, I’d probably pull the trigger too, my pacifist principles be damned.
But I won’t tell myself afterwards that I was right. I’d always regret that I wasn’t more true to the principles of Quakers and Gandhi.
I donate money to Amnesty International, International Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders and some others.
I do try. Mostly, I seem to be getting it right.
Well, aren’t you the Big Damn Ubermensch! We’re not worthey!
What’s “risk” got to do with it? Surely it’s *results *that count? I’m pretty sure my charitable donations do more to relieve pain and suffering in the world as a result of violence than if I tooled up and went to fight in, say, Darfur. In fact, by fighting, I’d be increasing the nett amount of trouble.
Kill innocents to save your child, but face a lifetime of anal rape and waterboarding.
Show of hands?
I bet you deduct it on your income taxes. I bet you spend more on entertainment and pizza in a year than you sent to AI. Still, you did something, I guess, which is more than the average contributor to this thread.
Who is it that I have to spend the rest of my life anally raping?
This kind of monkeysphere shit is why the world is as it is. Rise above, man, be more than human, not a glorified ape.
I usually don’t make enough in a year to pay IT. But no, I’m not sure if I could - I usually fill out the “easy” version of the revenue service forms.
You’d be right - but add in the others I mentioned, and no, you’d be wrong.
You can’t know that. You’re projecting your misanthropy onto everyone else.
I understand. What you don’t understand is that this makes you a seriously fucked up individual.
well, it wouldn’t be a long lifetime, most likely. If you killed a lot of people just to save your child, you’d probably be executed.
As MrDibble has said, you can’t know that. I donate to charities and I don’t feel a need to tell anyone how much or which charities. I don’t do it for praise
Well, I’d be one of the people telling you that you didn’t have a choice. I don’t know if that’d make you feel better or not, but I don’t think anyone would blame you.
Can I change my answer?
Would you rape a baby to save your child?
Show of hands?
Ooooh, we always see responses where someone says, “That’s the most despicable / scary / whatever thing I’ve ever seen written here on these boards!” and sometimes it’s even over the most trivial of stuff. However, I suppose I’ll now have to throw my hat in that particular ring to echo…
Being willing to kill an innocent person(s) to save the life of your own child is one of the most reprehensible statements I’ve personally read on the Dope. Others have already given great reasons why I feel this is so, leaving me to only add that I’m not some moral absolutist either. Therefore, my disclaimer is that I believe I’d certainly be capable of killing someone in defense of another and because of varying issues involved, not necessarily just in those circumstances (for example, I believe I could off an unrepentant Dahmer-type to prevent the death of anyone).
But just to think the life of someone I love is inherently worth more than whoever you love, is a million steps backward from getting to the point where we wouldn’t even ever need to consider such out-there hypothetical situations. Because we’d all have evolved to the place that each of us knows that everyone is innately equally valuable.
I just so shudder at what these notions about the children involved actually teach them. For parents who once felt this same way when you had little ones, ask them their opinion of that now. Since my mother inhabits this category as well, I repeat that I find it (and a lot of what else she taught, both overtly and by action) abhorrent.
You are aware that your disapproval in no way does anything to change my mind? It does me no harm, though, and makes you feel better about not really living your own claimed moral standards, so carry on.
Do you think it’s better to have no moral standards than to fail to live up to the ones you do have?
I have moral standards to which I live up. The majority of contributors to this thread disagree with them, but that doesn’t mean I have none. You could summarize mine, somewhat incompletely, as “Take care of your own.”