Percentage of Str8 vs. Gay Pedophiles discussion

The thread on this topic in General Questions was closed by a Moderator just a few minutes ago before I had a chance to comment on it, so I started the new topic here in Great Debates as the Mod’s note suggested.

Here’s the original thread for reference- LINK

First of all, it would be impossible to definitively quantify this because the actual percentage of the general population that is gay is unknown! Even the percentage of the male population that identifies themselves openly as gay/homosexual is anyone’s guess!

Studies have been conducted of convicted pedophiles who molested male children that compared how those men identified themselves sexually. Most of the ones I’ve read showed that the 96-98% of the men identifed as heterosexual/straight, which would imply that only 2-4% identified as gay, bisexual or other. I am confident that more than 4% of the general male population is either gay or bisexual. Does that mean that gay/bi men are less likely to be pedophiles? NO, it doesn’t.

The theory that some researchers have is that men who are pedophiles would want to live a straight lifestyle (usually with wife and children, right-wing politics and religious affiliation) to seem as ‘normal’ as possible and avoid scrutiny. That makes sense to me.

But the fact is that the vast majority of pedophiles, whether they prefer male or female children, are not sexually interested in adults of either sex. Are there straight men who love sex with adult women who molest children? Yes, there are, but they are the minority. Are there gay men who love sex with other adult men who molest children? Yes, but again they are a very small minority.

For the sake of this discussion, I consider a pedophile someone who is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children. While sexual activity between an adult male and 12-13 year old boy is beyond despicable, I don’t believe it is the same sickness as one who has sex with 5-6 year old boys. With that said, both are equally reprehensible.

There are some gay men who are specifically attracted to young men who look young. They use slang terms such as “twink” and “chicken” for these young looking men/boys. While most men attracted to this type only have sex with boys/men who are 18 or older (but may look 14), I’m sure there are some who have sex with underage boys. I would love to see every one of them behind bars for life, but I don’t think they are actual pedophiles. The victimization of pre-pubescent children is a horrifying monster of its own.

I agree with most psychological and mental experts that pedophiles can NOT be cured! Their sickness is hardwired into their brain and they have no control over their sick sexual attaction to children. BUT most of them do have the choice whether to act on those feelings! The sickest of them probably has no more control over their behavior than a serial killer.

No, I think that’s about right. Kinsey made the 10% figure popular, but it’s probably not that high. I think most people who are informed on this issue and not prejudiced against gays understand that being attracted to a consenting adult and being attracted to children are just not the same thing.

I’m not sure there’s a real consensus on that among experts, and I’m not sure we even understand the problem very well.

Here’s the rest of my posting because it wouldn’t allow me to edit or add…

My opinions on how pedophiles should be dealt with are highly controversial, but I firmly stand by them. I believe that pedophiles should never be released back into society upon the conviction! I also believe that second offense child molesters should be EXECUTED! Execution should be offered as an option to life in prison to first offenders. They are irreparably damaged and have the potential to do unimaginable, horrific things to innocent children and that can’t be allowed!

Personally, in some ways, I feel sorry for a lot of these sick bastards. I don’t believe that they ‘choose’ to be sexually attracted to children and most of them despise themselves and their sick desires as much as we do. I’m sure that many of them commit suicide, hopefully before they hurt any children. I can say with absolute certainty that I would kill anyone who molested my neice (7) or nephew (3) and do so with a clear conscience. I would also accept responsibilty for my actions, even if that meant spending years of my life behind bars.

One of the saddest things about pedophiles is that many of them were molested as children and that is what turned them into the monsters that they are now! Their brain’s ‘love map’ is corrupted by the sexual abuse and as adults they are programmed to repeat the molestation they experienced. While many/most pedophiles were molested, the VAST MAJORITY of molestation victims DO NOT turn out to be pedophiles. Quite the contrary, many adult molestation survivors are highly protectuive of others and often work in professions that protect the innocent.

While I am not a medical or psychological professional, I have spent MANY hours reading, researching and thinking about this very disturbing subject. I am a gay man and I was also molested by an adult male at the age of 10. For the record, I knew that I was gay when I was only six years old and didn’t even know what sex was. I remember watching pro wrestling at that age just to see their muscular bodies and shirtless toros! It made me feel funny in my tummy and I knew it was something I had to keep secret. I started puberty younger than most boys and I remember at the age of 9 seeing a naked man for the first time and having a VERY physical response! I was at church camp and walked into the communal showers (waited until I thought I would be alone) but there was a youth pastor from a neighboring campsite showering right there in front of me. He didn’t see me at first and I still remember seeing his hairy chest and what he had hanging below the belt to this day. I only looked for a second, then went to a toilet stall to figure out what to do with the tent in my shorts…I figured it out! So I can say with absolute certainty that being molested didn’t “make me gay”…I was born that way!

To be honest, I started reading about pedophiles and sexual molestation and abuse shortly after I was molested. I was terrified for years that one day I would turn into one of those monsters because of what had happened to me. When I was 13, I vowed that if I ever felt anything sexual toward a child, I would use kill myself and I meant it! Instead, I am fiercely protective of children, animals, the elderly and the mentally handicapped because they can’t defend themselves! I am also attracted to fully grown, hairy-chested (and hairy anywhere else) manly men…

You have an interesting way of showing it.

The Kinsey scale also rated sexuality on a scale from 0 to 6, with 0 being Exclusively Heterosexual and 6 being Exclusively Homosexual. The scale is based on sexual attraction/interest, not necessarily sexaul activity. Kinsey believed that the majority of adults fell were between a 1 and 5, even if they didn’t conciously realize or accept it. I’m a solid 5, which allows me just enough ‘hetero’ to have my “Chicks I’d Switch For” list (only five of them)…

Why, because I want to execute them? I think of it as a mercy killing for most of them…

Like a horse with a broken leg, right?

You can’t mercy kill someone else against their will. Saying it’s mercy in your opinion is just making an excuse. And yes, saying that you think people should be executed and that you’d be satisfied with going to prison after murdering one yourself does not demonstrate sympathy. Based on the experiences you’re describing I don’t know that I would expect you to have any sympathy for them, but if you don’t have sympathy, just own up to it. There’s no sense in saying you feel sympathy for someone but that killing them is OK.

Thank you for your post. If being molested makes someone gay how do you explain the vast amount of women that were molested as children by males and developed a distaste for them. I certainly don’t want to say that is a common reason, I’ve heard of it happening a few times where women state they choose female relationships because of trauma from men. I work in an area where (mental health) where I need to add childhood abuse as part of my assessment. So I’ve seen a lot of scenarios and none seem to conform to any kind of pattern. I don’t think it’s healthy to make any correlation between the choice to love a same sex person and pedophilia. I even think we need to drop the label of gay and lesbian at some point because I’m seeing more and more bisexual behavior in the younger generations and many people don’t want to be labeled, they just want the freedom to love who they do.

And I’m so sorry you had that awful experience. I’m an advocate for finding solutions to this kind of illness and I think society is way behind in addressing the problem. It’s a prolific issue and doesn’t get enough attention.

Everybody says they hate being labeled, but they label themselves anyway. It’s one of those things people do to themselves. These terms aren’t going away. In fact it’s going in the opposite direction: the labels are expanding. What used to be LGBT is now, what, LGBTQA or LGBTQIA?

I know, a few of my friends who have same sex partners have hinted they are upset that it is going in that direction. It’s just my opinion that when we label ourselves we limit ourselves to some degree.

That may be true, but that kind of labeling is one of the ways people define each other and themselves, and it pretty much always has been. In the not-so-distant past the concept of a sexual orientation didn’t even exist. So I wouldn’t expect it to go away.

If you think its a sickness, it doesn’t make sense that you would execute them. Sickness needs to be treated, and if not, then separated from the rest of the population.

I = Intersexed?

A = Asexual?

Q = Queer? Isn’t that the same as gay?

Meh, I have no problem with being labeled. Gay, solid Kinsey 6, etc. The whole ‘don’t label me!’ thing has never made a lot of sense to me.

Here is a report from UC Davis on the topic of the OP.

http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/faculty_sites/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html

A few items from the report -

Right. And I guess sometimes the Q can also mean “questioning” and the A can also mean “ally.” I’d completely botch any attempt at explanation of what queer means, so I think you should just Google it.

I feel sorry for the fact that are sexually attracted or excited by children and they certainly didn’t choose to have those feelings. But feel much stronger that they must be prevented from sexually abusing children.

I visited the man who molested me eight years ago to confront him and also to tell him that I forgave him. The pure rage and hatred I had toward him caused me to have three bleeding ulcers by the age of 23, horrible anxiety and panic attacks and made me a very unhappy person in general. I forgave him for ME, but I also wanted him to know that I had taken what he did to become a stronger, better person! I was 31 when I finally let it go and that’s when I went to see him. He was in his late 50s at the time.

He cried and apologized profusely and I think it might have even been genuine on some level. He was drunk when it happened and he had a drug and alcohol problem at the time. And the abuse could have been much worse, I won’t go into details, but many children go thru far worse physically and otherwise.

Before I left, he asked me if I had told my mom or dad about it. I told him that mom knew it had happened but I never told her (or anyone) that he was the one who did it. He was our neighbor and a friend of my dad’s and his sister was my mom’s best friend. He knew if I had told mom or dad that his days were numbered, literally. I told him I would never tell anyone it was him because I didn’t want to visit my mom in the women’s prison. He knew I wasn’t kidding.

I was surprised when he showed up at the funeral home back in Feb 2012 when my grandma died. I shook his hand and thanked him for coming, but that was the only contact I had with him.

He’s in a nursing home home with lung cancer now. I actually feel sorry for the suffering and pain that he’s going through.

Actually the issue of recidivism among sex offenders has been studied a bit, although it is not clear that a consensus has been reached.

FWIW, it appears that child molestors who attack male children, especially un-related male children, have higher recidivism rates than those who attack female children and/or relatives (cite)

Cite. Keep in mind that sex offenders are more likely to be re-arrested for non-sexual crimes than for sexual ones, thus it is possible that sex offenders are less likely to re-offend because they are in prison or jail to an undetermined degree.

The Rapid Risk Assessment tool looks at only a few characteristics, and assigns points to an offender based on those characteristics.
*Prior sex offenses (not including index offenses)

none 0
1 conviction; 1-2 charges 1
2-3 convictions; 3-5 charges 2
4 or more convictions; 6 or more charges 3

Age at release (current age)

more than 25 0 less than 25 1

Victim gender

only females 0 any males 1

Relationship to victim

only related 0 any non-related 1*

Obviously none of this can be considered a guarantee that anyone will or will not re-offend. The strongest correlation seems to be that, the more they did it in the past, the more likely they are to do it again.

Regards,
Shodan

My problem with labels is that they usually highlight our differences without recognizes the things we have in common. When I meet new people or start a new job, I don’t tell people that I’m gay immediately. Instead, I spend time getting to know then and lettign them get to know me, especially straight guys.

It’s always amusing to watch their reaction several months down the road when I finally do tell them. They can’t wrap their mind around the fact that I can work on almost anything with a motor including my own vehicles and that I own a cabinet full of guns (and that I’m a better marksman than they are) AND I’m gay??? But I can drink them under the table and I even went to a high-performance driving school at Road Atlanta…how can I be gay?

And each time they tell me they wouldn’t have hung out with me after work having beers or going to car shows or the shooting range if they knew I was gay from the beginning. But they also tell me how stupid that would have been because they’d have missed out on making a great friend…and vice versa.

The only part that I hate (and they all do it) are the sex questions that come next…or “are you the man or the woman”! And at some point they ask if I’ve ever checked them out of thought they were hot…and I always tell them no, even though I may have thought they were HOT in the beginning, by the time I have this discussion with them I’m over ay crush/lust.

My best friend remembered us passing out drunk at his house one night and I slept in his bedroom floor. He slept naked and so I saw the Full Monty that night and he asked me if it turned me on. When I told him no, I think it hurt his feelings a little…and he asked me if I had ever wanted to mess around with him, to which I replied, “I could never be that horny!” We met 18 years ago and he and his wife named godfather of both of their kids…

So I hate how labels serve to separate us…

Marley yes, Kinsey’s methodology was terrible. As John Tukey said, “A random selection of three people would have been better than a group of 300 chosen by Mr. Kinsey.”

I get that part. But just because you take the label of gay doesn’t mean you announce it to everyone you meet. For example, I more meant the guys that are into both girls and guys but don’t want to call themselves bisexual because that’s a label.

Sorry for the hijack!