Yes, I know that either you are not a lawyer, or, if you are, you may not be a lawyer in my jurisdiction, and in any event:
You are NOT MY lawyer.
So, we’ll keep it simple:
My outstanding debts go back decades (credit cards), have been sold and re-sold so many times that, if I do remember the original creditor, I have no idea who owns the (now worthless) paper.
Which brings up the following item I would be required to file:
Voluntary Petition (Official Form 1); Names and addresses of all creditors of the debtor. Must be filed WITH the petition. Fed.R.Bankr.P. 1007(a)(1).
Notice to Individual Debtor with Primarily Consumer Debts under 11 U.S.C. § 342(b) (Director’s Form 201A/B), if applicable. Required if the debtor is an individual with primarily consumer debts. The notice must be GIVEN to the debtor before the petition is filed.
Certification that the notice has been given must be FILED with the petition or within 15 days. 11 U.S.C. §§ 342(b), 521(a)(1)(B)(iii), 707(a)(3).
Official Form 1 contains spaces for the certification.
How do I come up with 1?
What the Hell is 2? Who prepares it and who receives it? How does that dance work? “Notice to … Debtor”? Debtor - that’s me. Filed BEFORE the bankruptcy? HOW exactly does that work?
So, now, not only do I need to remember every credit card I dumped in 1996, I need their addresses so I can remind them to hurry down to the courthouse and see if they can grab a penny or two on the dollar. :smack:
OK - I seem to recall one could (I think this was re settlement of an estate by Executor/Executirx) simply publish the name and SSN of the deceased and solicit valid claims to be submitted.
Does such a procedure exist for Personal Bankruptcy?
Yes, I realize that doing Bankruptcy Pro Se is a minefield, and I am not going go solo if I can avoid it.
The nephrologists are telling me that time is limited.
IANAL, nor am a bankruptcy lawyer. However, I do know that the statue of limitations on credit card debt in California is 4 years. If it’s been more than 4 years since you made a charge or payment, I’m not sure why you would need to list that debt. The company would have stopped being a creditor 12 years ago. You might want to do more research to verify.
I believe you’re missing a fine point - a debt from 1996 (no activity - I know at least that trick)
is not longer ENFORCEABLE - they can sue, I file a response saying “Statue of Limitations” and the court dismisses.
HOWEVER - the debt NEVER goes away - except by paying it off (yeah, right - 16 years of interest) or being discharged by bankruptcy. If I die with those bills outstanding, the creditor (few do) can file a claim against my estate.
The difference between an enforceable debt and a legal debt.
Get a lawyer licensed in California and knowledgeable about bankruptcy.
If you try to do this yourself, odds are good you will fuck it up royally.
For 1, get a copy of your credit report as a starting point, and save all those collection letters you are probably getting. Any potential creditor that you do not list will not be affected by the bankruptcy, so err on the side of including everybody that might have some claim against you. You will also want to list any courts where judgments have been listed against you, or where collection lawsuits are pending.
For 2, I suspect that is probably a notice to the debtor (you) that there are multiple chapters of bankruptcy available, and you should pick the one most advantageous to you, if you qualify for it. With credit card debt, you probably want to file a Chapter 7 if you can (you have to pass a means test, where your income is compared to the median household income in your state to file under 7), unless you are trying to save a house or a car, in which case a 13 may be to your advantage.
You will have to get credit counseling before you can file–they give you a certificate that must be filed with your petition, or within a few days after in very limited circumstances. You will also have to get post-bankruptcy counseling, which gives another certificate that must be filed with the court prior to discharge.
Go to the US Dept of Justice website, and find the page for the Uinted States Trustee. You can find the Notice to Consumer Debtor there, along with info on credit counseling.
Go to your local district bankruptcy court website, and under Forms, you’ll find the Offical Bankruptcy Forms that can be filled in. You’ll also be able to find the address for the Clerk’s Office where you can file the papers.
I caught that too. If you’re facing a big medical crisis, then wait to file until after the surgery or whatever. That way you can put any bills from that into the filing.
And there is a big danger in not including all the creditors - if you end up as an asset case (which is easier than you may think, particularly in regard to tax refunds) and your creditors don’t get notice, they may no be discharged.
Get a credit report, and list everyone you can possibly think of, with whatever addresses you can find. The payment address is usually a good way to go.
I’m starting to dig into the DOJ site - but get lost when thry refer to a form called “Director’s Form 201A/B” - Where do I look for that?
I’m not worried about transplants - I don’t want another Chinese import - but I am concerned that I’ll wake up dead some day soon.
I really, really would prefer an attorney - but, failing that, is there a self-help site of book anyone could recommend?
(Yes, I am sleeping 13 hours a day - stage 4 and counting. It usually takes 3 months to see a nephrologist - the last time I thought blood work was indicated, I was chatting with one in 3 days. That’s always fun
As far as I know, you can keep your house. You have to sign a special agreement to keep paying the mortgage.
You need to talk to a lawyer. Most of them will do an initial consultation for free.
A good lawyer will have seen all this before. S/he will know how to handle these long lost debts.
A good lawyer will also guide you on when to file. File before the medical procedure, to protect the estate? File after the procedure, so you can discharge medical costs? Discuss this with the lawyer.
If the lawyer you go to is useless during the free consult, go to someone else. This happened to my brother. The first lawyer was a mess and didn’t give him any useful information. The second one really explained things to him.
Please hire or at least consult a BK attorney. If you have health issues, the last thing you need is the panic, fear and dread at the prospect of doing something wrong. 25 years ago, a personal BK with minimal assets was not much harder than filing long-form taxes. Today, there’s much more to it.
If you want to at least see what the process looks like or even to consider filing pro se, Nolo Press has very good books complete with worksheets and forms. Usually, the courts and trustees are sympathetic to pro se, but only up to a point. Having forms out of order may be overlooked, but don’t expect any favors if you’re late with anything.
Also, beyond the forms and filings, the Trustee will not cut you a break if you misunderstand an exemption or what may be an asset. I’ve worked for a Trustee for 15 years, and he has never given a break to a pro se Debtor who may have misunderstood something. He can’t, because he has a fiduciary duty to the DOJ, and has to pursue all possible assets.
Actually, I scored 96th percentile on the LSAT 40+ years ago. Unfortunately, All the President’s Men had just convinced half of the boomers to be Crusading Young Lawyers, and my kissing off undergrad precluded admission to anything above “so, what does it matter to YOU that 95% of your classmates will flunk the Bar?” types.
So I know to throw in everything and let the court decide what it thinks is worthy of note.
And I just re-fi’d the house (hard-money, of course). The lender (who is actually cutting me slack) made sure to include a document stating that, should I file BK, the Note would be immediately off the table.
I would have thought the Trustee’s duty was to the creditors - I would have never thought the DOJ was involved to that extent.
Thanks for the links - I had forgotten about NoLo.
It comes down to the timing - there is another year before I can file (statutory limitation) - if I can scrape up fees by then, I will certainly call the nice folks whose ball-point pen I was given by another lawyer. If not, well, stuff is going to hit a very serious fan. The limit expires about when it looks like I’ll need dialysis - and those are expensive toys - and even my nice (20% of income) PPO insurance only pays 60%. I may be forced to do the transplant - at least if it makes it a one-time expense. I understand the nice folks in China no longer remove the convicted from the courtroom and put a bullet into the base of his/her skull - they pen them up and feed them a drug to make their organs easy to transplant. I wonder what China’s entry into the used organ market has done to wait times/criteria for admission to the wait list? (not everyone who needs a transplant will get one - even if a perfect match is readily available. I would flunk that criteria as well (no, it is not (supposed to be) a financial test).
And then there’s Obamacare - if the assholes in OK (and who knows what other red states will join the effort) manage to scuttle it, that one last hope goes bye-bye.
As I understand: Obamacare predicated that each State would establish its own insurance exchange - the SCOTUS struck down the section REQUIRING the States to do so. The pubbies in OK hope to sabotage the national program by not playing along. I hope it would take all of a week to tell them to either play the game or pay the US (or whatever would be the default exchange) a profit on any business forced by OK.
Another reason you need a lawyer: These types of clauses are called “ipso facto” clauses and are meaningless in BK. Plus, assuming you want to keep your house, you would want to reaffirm this debt. If the lender refuses, you lose your house anyways.
If you insist on doing this yourself, look up your state BK exemptions and see what, if any, assets you would lose in the bankruptcy. Also, you definitely need to find out all of your creditors. If it’s a no-asset Ch 7, it MIGHT not matter, but a judge has a right to not grant a bankruptcy if you have kept such poor records that you can’t identify everyone.
You stated you are a business owner. If your income is above the median, you must file a Chapter 13 instead of 7. That is even more complicated. Pay for a lawyer!
I am not a business owner - don’t know where that one came from. I was once a D/B/A, but that expired 20+ years ago. All that remains is the EIN.
Is there a notice along the line an executor/trix (GOD, I hate that -trix convention!) publishes:
“All persons having claims against the estate of J. Doe must notify Dewey, Cheatum, and Howe,
1001 Conversion Way, Takeit AL”?
This would seem the only manageable way to deal with petitioners suffering from dementia or simply old age.
One cannot really be expected to keep every bill ever received, and the credit report does not list debts over x years old - the usual limit for financial records is 7 years.
I don’t suppose property tax can be discharged while keeping the property, can it?
I’m going to print off salient points from this thread (without attribution, don’t worry) and start digging as I can.
Today, I got in bed at 01:00 and got up at 18:30 - digging is going to take some time.
For those enjoying like’s little ironies:
This whole thing is an example of “be careful what you wish for, for wishes some times come true”: This window of opportunity is opening almost a year earlier than expected because of a tremendous break I got on a biggie debt - I’m going to be able to discharge it without resorting to BK. That year was when I was going to scrape up the fees.
I don’t know if it’s possible to do this anymore, and I don’t know what your situation is. But when I declared bankruptcy, I got a cash advance from a credit card to pay the lawyer. I do remember I had to wait a certain amount of time between getting a cash advance and filing. So there are specific bankruptcy laws relating to cash advances.
Did you discharge the credit card debt in the BK!? That is incredible!
“you want to file bankruptcy and dump all your debts?” Cool! We’ll lend you the money to pay for the process by which you will not have to repay us"!
There’s a reason why BK lawyers get their fees up front - they don’t want you adding THEIR name to list of folks you want to screw…
Do you need to file so you can qualify for credit for a kidney transplant? Surely there are other options.