There are over 270 players in the MLB HOF (in addition to 70-or-so execs, managers and umps).
There are less than 50 players who have ever been banned from the HOF…and some of them were later reinstated. “No banned person has ever been posthumously reinstated by Major League Baseball.” - List of people banned from Major League Baseball - Wikipedia
Being banned seems to me a much more elite distinction.
He accepted “permanent ineligibility”, which does not expire with death.
He will never make it into the Hall of Fame. Rob Manfred can breathe a sigh of relief, because now he doesn’t have to deal with this any longer now that Rose can’t apply for reinstatement anymore.
He is in the Hall of Fame. Go there and he’s all over the place. He even has his own exhibit that explains why he’ll never have a plaque in the room that matters.
Go to Cooperstown and you’ll get your fill of Pete Rose.
I understand what you’re saying, but is he a member of the Hall of Fame?
No. And he never will be.
And, as I reviewed his stats, .395 OBP! HIs best in 6 years. Of course, .319 is rather under the SLG standard for a first baseman.
The Reds finished 5 1/2 behind the Dodgers, so the difference between Rose and “better 1B than Rose” wouldn’t have made up the difference. Tony Perez had better rate numbers, but hadn’t been an everyday player since 1980. Nick Esasky probably had more upside, though he didn’t pan out the way you’d want from a former first round draft pick.
I mean, if you press me on it, I’d join Team Pete-should-be-in-the-Hall-except-for-the-gambling-thing. But I’d say the same thing - and feel a lot better about Pete-the-man - if he had pulled a Mike Schmidt and retired after '83.
There’s no shame in that stance. I’m also of the mind that statistically he absolutely was a first-ballot Hall of Famer. But he broke the cardinal rule and did so in a position of power where he could fully manipulate the outcome, which is far worse than even just betting on your own abilities. As such, he doesn’t deserve the honor.
I agree that it’s unfortunate the hits leader isn’t a member of the hall of fame. But I add that this is not the hall’s fault.
Sad to hear. I think one of the worst deaths in recent history was Wakefield, followed by his wife months later.
I’ve been fortunate enough to become friends with some MLB players past and current. Really great people all around. There’s some exceptions to that rule and without naming who but I think we can take some decent guesses.
I always think how fortunate it was for young Darren Baker that J.T. Snow was coming down the line from third, instead of Rose (ask Ray Fosse).
In addition to all the unrepentant gambling crap, Rose also admitted to statutory rape, though he testified that he didn’t know she was under 16. He ultimately wasn’t prosecuted because the statute of limitations had expired.
He was a phenomenal baseball player. And a complete scum bag. If the character factor exists for a reason in the HoF balloting, it exists to keep people like Rose out of the Hall—and, yes, it’s moot because he is ineligible, period. As he should be.
Professionally remarkable. Personally awful. We see that in many disciplines, not only sports. My only interest in whether he is ever inducted into Cooperstown is whether it will increase the value of his rookie baseball card (1963 Topps #537) which I have had in my collection since I was 11 years old. (Yes, it’s in a safe place.) He didn’t even rate his own card. There are three other rookies on it with him.
My view of the man was that he was a great baseball player with a relentless will to achieve and win, but he was very arrogant and not a nice person. He was so arrogant, in fact, that he believed he could do the unthinkable, bet on baseball and bet on his own team, and get away with it. I think MLB gave him the lesson in humility that he very much needed.
I mean yes, needed, but perhaps not in any way absorbed.
Agreed. For decades after the fact he exhibited nothing but unapologetic denial. Not only did he want MLB to let him into the Hall, he wanted it on HIS terms.
“He campaigned like he played: headfirst, and without regard to other people.”
Whose quote was that?
Mine! Just felt like a good motto for him.
I’m not sympathetic to Rose. What he did threatened the integrity of the game. You just don’t gamble on the sport you are actively a part of and you sure as hell don’t bet on the games in which you are participating. If he had expressed remorse and owned up to his actions, he’d be in. He chose not to so not being in the HOF was his own choice.
I don’t see what the controversy is. When he became a member of the league he agreed to the rules and accepted the consequences. He objectively broke the rules. The consequences were clear. End of story.
If you think that is a bad rule, and I can’t imagine why any rational person would, then get it changed and we can have a different conversation.
I agree! 