Petty small-town cops

At the consulting company I work for, we have a 19-year-old guy who works part-time (I’ll call him Joey here, not his real name). He does assorted odd tasks that need doing, e.g., data entry, moving stuff, running errands and so on. He’s very much into hip-hop, records raps with his friends, wears the clothes, etc. He’s also a fairly quiet kid (at least around us), polite, does his thing without too much prompting, and is generally a pleasure to be around.

Yesterday afternoon, he was asked to run an errand into the next town over. When he didn’t come back in a timely fashion, his mom (who also works with us) and my boss began to get a little concerned. Joey finally called in, but with a story that infuriated me when I heard it later in the day.

He was driving his mom’s car - a BMW convertible - when he was stopped by a police officer for not having a license plate on the front of the car (New York requires plates on front and back.) Out of sheer coincidence and possibly bad luck, this same police officer had stopped him three weeks earlier for the same infraction, and she remembered him. Now, before anyone says anything about this: yes, everyone involved recognizes that a second ticket for this infraction, however sucky, was deserved since the plate wasn’t taken care of after the first ticket. However, what followed is a little hard to swallow.

While the officer was waiting for Joey to get out his license, the registration and insurance card, she asked him, “What religion are you?” (Remember, this is Good Friday now.) He calmly asked her, “How does this pertain to my ticket?” at which she took his license etc. with a huff and went back to her patrol car. She came back to tell him that the car came back as uninsured, and that she was impounding the car. (Joey’s mom said they had changed insurance companies about a month before; given how rabid NYS is about maintaining insurance coverage, it’s unlikely that the new company failed to report her new policy, or that the DMV would not have noticed and sent a letter. In any case, the car is definitely properly insured.) So the car was towed back to the police station, and Joey of course was brought along in the patrol car.

Once at the station, Joey asked if he could call his mom to tell her what happened, and to come pick him up. One officer said, “What, you don’t have a cell phone?” (Joey doesn’t, in fact) and then refused to let Joey make the (local) call. Another cop, noticing both the make of the car and Joey’s clothing, suggested it would be fun to “let the dogs rip apart the car to look for drugs.” Several other snide comments were made about his attire, the car and his alleged moral character before he was allowed to leave the station. At that point he found a pay phone at a gas station and was able to call his mom to say what had happened.

To the cops I would say:

WTF is wrong with you people? Is living and hour and a half from NYC a valid excuse for having your heads so far up your asses that you don’t know it’s inappropriate to ask someone about their religion during a traffic stop? That the issue of profiling got a whole heckuva lot of bad press just 30 minutes down the road in New Jersey, and maybe, just maybe, you ought to be a little less blatant in waving your prejudices like a flag? That apparently pretending someone’s car is uninsured so you can tow it, just to hassle someone and collect another $200 for the town, is unbelievably wrong behavior for a LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER?

His parents are furious and intend to complain loudly to anyone who will hear it. I hope they make plenty of waves.

I suggest that the individual and his parents make complaints to both the police department and to city hall as soon as possible. Asking what religion a person is on a traffic stop? WTF?

The cops sound like redneck assholes. Not all that uncommon in small-town America. Definitely file a complaint.

It might be worth contacting the local branch of the ACLU.

Nothing is worth that…

Maybe she was just making conversation.
There’s no evidence in the story to suggest that the question was related to the officer’s actions.

From what’s been presented, the biggest issue would be if the car actually “came back as uninsured.” If it did come back as uninsured, then the police are certainly authorized to follow standard procedures for uninsured autos without having to make any legal judgements of their own. As long as the police exercised due diligence by following the SOP for checking for insurance, received a response that indicated that the car was uninsured, and subsequently followed SOPs re the impounding etc, I’d say you’d have a hard row to hoe to show wrong doing on the part of the police.

From what’s been presented, the bit about the phone call seems definitely uncalled for and rude, but I’m unsure of it’s seriousness.

Might just have to chalk this one up to experience.

He wouldn’t have been suspected of Driving While Black, would he? I hoped we were over that.

Do you make conversation by asking complete strangers what religion they are?

Or Driving While Young. I’ve had friends get hassled for that, too.

Robin

AFAIK, There’s not a law against it. Not sure that there’s anything inherentlywrong with the question at all.
There’s nothing in the story presented that shows the question to have much to do with the officer’s behavior.

W/o the questions being inherently wrong, and w/o showing that the question influenced the officer’s behavior in an inappriopriate way, it doesn’t seem like something you get many miles out of in front of a judge, ( possibly the judge of the same small town as the officer :wink: ).

[minor hijack]

Just so you know, that’s the #2 question in the South (I know, the OP is in NY, but there’s no telling where the officer was from). Any social interaction, from the grocery store to the post office to the bank, goes:

  1. Who is your family?
  2. What church do you go to?

Annoys the ever-living hell out of me.

[/minor hijack]

Is it wrong of me not to want to accept this 3rd party version of events as being 100% accurate?

I like to believe that the vast, vast majority of police officers are nice people. Unfortunately, I’ve met quite a few who were complete jerks and a couple who were downright scary.

So if during a routine traffic stop a police officer asked me about something as potentially controversial as my religion, I’d be terrified of giving the ‘wrong’ answer. Why, if they didn’t like my response, they could trump up a reason to tow my car and then leave me stranded miles from home with no phone…

Knowing your rights, always comes in handy…

Exactly.

Yet, without the ability to show that a reason was indeed trumped up, what have you got? A question you didn’t feel comfortable with. Hardly grounds for much.

If sunfish’s friend can show that the car did not come back as uninsured, I think that a good case could be made.
Since the insurance check involved a govt bureaucracy, I’m certain that there’ll be a paper trail which shows when the car’s insurance made it into the system. There may even be a record of when the officer checked the system.
If it can be shown that the car was shown as insured when the officer ran the check, there’re grounds for some sort of redress. This would open the officer to the sorts of allegations being made about the religion question.

This would have been better as a rant about rude, unprofessional police behavior without the gratuitous “small-town” slam.

I would be willing to bet that there’s at least one anecdote out there about petty bureaucratic city coffer-stuffing behavior in New York City.

The two worst police outfits I know of in my state for rousting motorists for dubious fines, are smaller departments smack in the middle of one of the biggest metro areas.

The thing I don’t quite understand is the thing about the car “showing up” as uninsured. You mean in New York it’s up to the insurance companies to keep the database up to date? Sure puts a lot of trust in their hands. We (in Texas) have a “proof of insurance” card that we have to show to register the car, renew DLs, and of course, to show those friendly policemen when we get pulled over.

Cops stops kid for 2nd time for same infraction. Kid says cop asked what religion was he. Me, I imagine the conversation was a little more than that.

In any event, in most all courts I know of, the cop is an officer of the court and has a lot more credibility than the citizen.

We’ve got those in NY, too. But the DMV also has a database and insurance companies notify them when a policy is cancelled (and I guess when they are issued). Problem with the cards is, I can get the card and cancel the policy a week later. I’ll still have the card, but don’t have the insurance.

Sorry to have dropped out of sight for a bit, was just away visiting family. To address some of the points made here:

SimonX, I take it you have never been stopped by a cop before? :wink: In all seriousness, I have never seen a cop take a light-hearted approach, for want of a better phrase, to a traffic stop. Officers will stand behind the driver’s side door when they ask for your info, because they are on guard for any potentially threatening movements on your part. It’s not exactly the time to strike up a chat. Picking that moment to ask a question about someone’s personal faith - especially on a religious holiday they may or may not be observing - is just way out of place.

We have insurance cards here in NYS too. You’re obliged to show them, along with your driver’s license and car registration, whenever you’re stopped by the police. The officer will then go back to his/her patrol car and run whatever additional checks they need to run. The reason that Joey’s parents were upset about the insurance issue did that Joey did have - and did show to the officer - the currently valid insurance card.

The reason I said it was unlikely that there was a bureaucratic error is because NYS (unlike New Jersey, for example) is not at all tolerant of lapses in insurance, and has reporting requirements regarding any change in insured status. For example, say I decide to change insurance companies. I’m supposed to notify my old company that I’m switching, to whom, and as of what date. If I don’t, the old insurance company is required by law to report to the DMV that my coverage has lapsed, and they are unaware of the new carrier. If I have a new carrier, it’s ultimately no big deal, because that info will already have been submitted to the DMV separately by the new company. But, no new carrier = I’m in a lot of hot water if I’m stopped and a check is run.

For Joey’s mom’s car to have come up as uninsured, there would have to have been a significant communications snafu somewhere along the line between the old and new insurance companies and the DMV regarding a routine and required procedure. As of Friday evening, when I last talked to Joey’s parents, their agent was swearing up and down that everything had been handled properly. If in fact there was a bureaucratic foul-up, of course the officer had no choice but to follow procedure. Given the apparent demeanor of this officer, I think it’s reasonable to be wonder what was up.

Joey is not black, no. However, he is 19, and was driving an expensive car and dressed hip-hop style, which up in this area is immediately equated with drug dealing. Now, there is a local drug scene which, to the best of my knowledge (i.e. based upon the word of some locals), is allowed to exist without much hassle. Personally, if I were a drug dealer with big bucks I wouldn’t register my car in my mom’s name, but hey, maybe I just don’t think enough like a criminal.

Oh, I absolutely have anecdotes about unprofessional NYC police behavior, from parking ticket guff to use of excessive force. This rant was about the cops in this particular small town, hence the thread title. In my personal experience there is a difference in the kinds of attitudes copped (no pun intended) by unprofessional police officers in different size jurisdictions. Those in small towns, whether they are out in the countryside or just of north of NYC (coughBronxvillecough), tend to act like their town is their personal fiefdom, where they can behave as they please.

I am NOT slamming small-town cops in general here, or even small-town life.

To be totally honest, I did hear the condensed version from Joey’s parents on Friday evening. When I see Joey next on Tuesday, I’ll be sure to ask him myself how things went. I will also ask how their effort to file a complaint went, and what happened with the insurance. Now, I know these folks as good people, so I’m inclined to take them at their word. You are free to believe or not, whatever you wish.