Hmm, it’s a tricky one because whether or not it is fact depends not on the format or structure of the question, but on the reality behind it. When I read the question I didn’t have any idea how much territory they lost, so couldn’t really answer the question other than say it was opinion.
But now I hear they lost nearly all…that significant.
You’re confusing “fact” with “factual.” A factual statement can be wrong and therefore not a fact.
Ah, yes.
This is untrue on the face of it. You just need to know how to follow rules.
“The Atlantic Ocean is a large body of water.”
“The unemployment rate sharply increased following the 2008 recession.”
“Average life expectancy does not significantly differ between Spain and Portugal.”
“When the dead body decomposed in the trunk of mama’s Chevy, it produced a strong smell.”
To me, these are all factual statements. Just because there are adjectives thrown in there doesn’t suddenly make these opinions.
I got them all right apart from this one.
I think the “significant” was what tipped it into being a subjective judgement for me. It is mostly a qualitative word when used in the press, rarely is it used in the statistical sense.
I also doubt whether the data held on ISIS dominance is actually accurate enough to make such a statement. I could see the original phrasing being pressed into service for political effect . Had it simply said ISIS lost territory then I would have gone with factual.
So I don’t think it is necessarily correct either way. Of course the very fact that this board would the pick the question apart in this way suggests we are perhaps not the demographic to be concerned about.
The full statement is, “ISIS lost a significant portion of its territory in Iraq and Syria in 2017.”
Look at the graphic midway down in this article from 2017. Clicking the arrows will show you ISIS’s territory in early 2016 vs. late 2017. It looks to me like they lost well more than 60% of their territory.
Stipulating that most of the territorial loss was in 2017, not in 2016, imagine someone who says, “ISIS did not lose a significant part of its territory in Iraq and Syria in 2017.” Would you consider that to be an accurate statement? Would you consider that to be a matter of opinion?
If someone made that claim, I’d consider it really inaccurate.
That said, I think that fact and opinion exist along a spectrum, and are complicated by things like semantic questions, unproveable beliefs, unproven beliefs, and so on.
Take the question about whether raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour is essential for the health of the economy. That’s an opinion question. But what if the question was whether having a government-issued currency was essential for the health of the economy? What if the question was whether preventing mass disease outbreak was essential for the health of the economy? What if the question was whether preventing global thermonuclear annihilation was essential for the health of the economy?
For me, those question start moving more and more into the factual column. Someone who has an alternative opinion–“No, a global thermonuclear war wouldn’t necessarily make our economy unhealthy”–is bugfuck crazy, not just possessing a different opinion.
If we define the economy’s health, then we can theoretically derive an unambiguous, factual answer for each of those scenarios. The minimum wage question would then become a factual statement–possibly an erroneous statement, but still factual.
The cause of your confusion is that you’re assuming factual = true. There are several factual statements here that are false and have the data to disprove them.
In the ISIS question, there is hard data behind the statement. “Significant” is imprecise, but you could look up the data and give actual numbers.
None of the other opinion questions have that ability.
Significant means sufficiently great or important to be worthy of attention. 60-80% of territory in enough to be worthy of attention by any reasonable definition so the statement was a fact.
My confusion is over whom you’re addressing here. That doesn’t look like anyone in this thread.
“The Atlantic Ocean is the second largest body of water in the world.”
“The unemployment rate hit its highest point in the last four decades following the 2008 recession.”
“The average life expectancy in Spain is within one month of Portugal’s life expectancy.”
“Neighbors could smell the decomposing body in mama’s Chevy from across the street.”
Mine are all factual statements. My statements are also all more informative and colorful than the opinions you wrote.
Left Hand of Dorkness, RealityChuck, puddleglum, TimeWinder, and Isamu have all seemingly fallen into the same trap.
The quiz explicitly instructed subjects that: “Regardless of how knowledgeable you are about each topic, would you consider each statement to be a factual statement (whether you think it is accurate or not) or an opinion statement (whether you agree with it or not)?” You were not supposed to consider whether you agreed with an opinion statement or whether you believed a factual statement. In my view, that means you should be able to judge whether something is a factual statement for the study’s purposes without knowing whether the statement is true or false.
Those of you who disagree with me all rely on information that is not part of the study’s statement. You then use that information to determine whether you agree with the statement. Because, after having evaluated the facts from other sources, you agree with the survey’s opinion, you declare that opinion to be true, and thus, you declare the statement to be a fact. People misinterpreting other people’s opinions to be facts was precisely what Pew was trying to measure. They blew it. So did you.
I would consider it a good opinion. Other people might hold a contrary opinion because they do not know the correct facts or because they interpret the facts in a way I disagree with. Some of the opinions in your post are unreasonable but some people hold the crazy opinion that Boyhood is a good movie. It is still just their opinion.
“Significant” isn’t merely imprecise; it is a statement of opinion. In this context, it means, as I noted above, “important.” Whether something is important is not a verifiable fact; it is a value judgment.
60-80% may be worthy of attention in any reasonable person’s opinion. It’s one that I share. That doesn’t make my opinion a fact.
Yes, my opinion is that the study’s analysis is bad. You are free to disagree. You are right that the data from the remaining questions is valid. Perhaps they should analyze that and see if their findings hold. Perhaps they should have thrown out the question before they rushed to the press with their slipshod analysis.
Many people disagree with me about a lot of things even though I’m right. When I think I might be wrong, I often seek the opinion of others to see if their reasoned analysis sways me. That was why I posted this thread. So far, I am unpersuaded but, unfortunately, I think I’ve also failed to persuade anyone else to my side.
“Substantial” has the same problem as significant. Who is the judge of what is “substantial” and why is that person’s opinion better than my own? This is still not a fact.
Under the study, the reality behind the statement is irrelevant. You are supposed to judge the statement regardless of your knowledge of the fact or whether you agree with the opinion.
Bolding mine
The problem with seeing this as a spectrum comes when people start moving the goalposts. If I have a factual statement, with data to back it up, some people will be able to tell themselves it’s an opinion if they don’t like it. Then opinions can be treated as false facts, and therefore of no value whatsoever, or as true fact that cannot be disputed.
The next step is for opinions or unprovable facts to be indisputable, and punishment meted out for not believing it.