Head. Insert the word head. :smack:
If only we all had the same politically-correct reactions to what see on the screen and stage. What a wonderful world it will be when there is no variation.
Better yet, if some folks weren’t asshole bigots who blame their intolernce on their genes and refuse to take responsiblity for their irrational fucktardedness, then what a wonderful world it will be. Variety may be the spice of life; but I can do without hemlock in my goulash.
Is it really “politically correct” to avoid shitting on other people for no particularly good reason? Do I really not flip out when I see a gay guy just because it would make me look bad?
Let me Rumsfeld these hypotheticals for you: No. “Do unto others” is not political correctness. I’m sad for you if you really think this way.
Who are you accusing of this?
I honestly don’t care what people have a problem with, it’s their expressing it during a screening of a movie that presumably they aren’t under court order to attend in front of people who reason and simple human decency should inform them it offends. When they groan and curse seeing a man kiss a man, they’re groaning and cursing ME in a venue that I paid to enter. They’re saying that I am sicker than heroin addiction, police brutality, violence, etc… Fuck Politically Correct or Incorrect, I’m just asking for consideration and keeping your personal views personal during a motherfucking MOVIE.
And yes, it is a very personal issue to me that I don’t respond to as objectively as I might, but when I think of the negative reinforcement this sends to the alterna-kids who were in the theater, many of whom are already struggling with identity issues and suicidal thoughts (suicide rates among gay teens are several times the number for straight- I personally was suicidal when I was a teenager coming to grips with who and what I was) and that they have to see politicians and televangelists and pundits and even teachers and the like talking about how evil and sordid they are during the waking, and they go into a movie for some enjoyable catchy tuned escapism AND THE HOMOPHOBIA HAS INFILTRATED THE TEMPLE OF ESCAPISM AS WELL… it’s infuriating. I’m not a violent or confrontational person in general but I’ll admit I would love to take a Big Lots Home Security System and give them something to groan about.
It’s not a life threatening or injurious thing above the superficial level to me, but it’s a symptom of a fucking sick mindset when gay men are less to be tolerated than street drug addiction.
No, just using an example other than race/ethnicity.
Ah. My 'pologies, then.
What are the parts I bolded supposed to mean? If they are meant to be derogatory, it’s pretty ironic considering the point you are trying to make.
I agree that it was impolite to groan out loud.
How is this worse than when “frat boys” do it? Or, is it because frat boys can’t behave in a civilized manner?
Why did you groan at heroin use? Why do you hate drug users? Clearly it was something you had a visceral reaction to, and if you realize that, why not extend the same courtesy to others. Of course, they could have not made an audible groan, but some people are more impetuous, and/or thoughtless than others.
So to be clear, we are talking about male homosexuality?
Yes, because if you don’t sit next directly next to another guy, you must be a homophobe who doesn’t want to become a sodomite. What a load of crap. Additionally, your hierarchy of “things we should be disgusted by” is meaningless, and logically flawed. Just because something is morally worse or of greater intensity doesn’t mean people must act, or react, correspondingly. It’s like saying we shouldn’t fight HIV in the US because more people die of cancer or suicide. Shouldn’t the higher numbers of dead bother everybody more? Maybe, but they don’t because people don’t think like that. This is a logically flawed point.
Yes, because the best reaction to perceived discrimination is wishing harm to others. I get you were probably trying to vent, but it completely undercuts your argument of tolerance when you wish harm to others.
Which leads me to believe they genuinely reacted without thinking. I doubt you could make an effective argument that this was premeditated, or that they were trying to stick it to the queers by voicing their disgust.
How exactly does this have anything to do with the discussion? If you were trying to say discrimination of all kinds is equal, I disagree. Either way, I don’t see any hypocrisy.
Wow! Allow me to outline all the important talking points we should take from this thread:
- Southerners are stupid, racist, and homophobic.
- Not sitting next to another man in a movie theater is a sign of homophobia.
- It’s always a character flaw, to act, or react in a way that is disproportional to the cause. If you are afraid to fly, you are stupid. Don’t bother raising money for MS, because more people die of heart disease.
- People who are homophobic are really closet homos.
- Discrimination against Blacks is the same as discrimination against homosexuals. In short, racism is the same as homophobia.
- For pointing out the flaws in Sampiro’s argument, I am a homophobe.
I think you need to calm down. It’s getting pretty tiring going over the same ground ad infinitum. I think we can all appreciate that there is a lot of homophobia out there, but it doesn’t mean we need a thesis about it every time someone acts like an idiot. Especially, when the tone of the OPs is often more hateful than the people described in them. Just because someone doesn’t like seeing two men kiss doesn’t make them a homophobe, or a bad person. Just because you don’t agree with gay marriage doesn’t make you a gay-bashing thug. Just because you think homosexuality is a sin, doesn’t mean you are a brainwashed religious zealot. Hopefully, homosexuality won’t be the divisive issue that it is today, but it’s not gonna happen if having a unexamined opinion makes you a hateful person. I’m sure most of the people here agree with the general thrust of your OP, but it’s being offended doesn’t give you carte blanch to act like a asshole in return.
I agree with this, to the extent that there’s a lot of socialization we experience growing up that enforces the idea that “gay” equals “icky.” You can’t blame someone for their upbringing.
You can, however, blame them for not re-evaluating their upbringing and the social responses they were programmed with, and adjusting them as necessary. A fifteen year old who is grossed out by gays is forgivable. A fifty year old who is grossed out by gays needs to grow the fuck up.
And tdn, I don’t include you in that group. You can’t help your visceral reaction to gay sex, but you can (and have) changed how you process that reaction, and limited how much you allow that reaction to affect your interactions with other people. Good for you: it’s a sign of maturity, thoughtfulness, and good character.
I agree with this, too. I’m gay, and if there’s room, I always put a seat between me and the people on either side of me. That way, I don’t have to fight for the armrests.
Thanks, Miller, for your kind words. And the first two paragraphs of that post are exactly what I was saying. Except, you know, coherently ‘n’ stuff.
Ditto. 
I leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine if they or someone they know fits the category. Let us just say that if one is defending the idea that being disgusted with an on-screen gay kiss is an innate trait, then I would include them in that group.
The problem with this, Homebrew, is that whether you intend it or not, you’re setting up a strawman. Nobody in the thread, AFAICT has said definitively that it is an innate trait. I and others have said that it might be, but that nobody knows, and that it’s irrelevant anyway.
If you wish to address what people have actually said, do so. But addressing something that might kinda sort of sound like what they said – leaving it open for others to infer that that is in fact what they said – is unfair and does not aid understanding or ignorance-fighting.
And no, “Fred Phelps said it and that’s who I was thinking of” is not a defense.
If you allow that it may be an innate trait you’re making excuses for bigotry. I don’t care to fight that ignorance by rational argument. Bigotry is irrational and I can’t reason someone out of it. I intend to marginalize and ostercize bigots. Eventually it will be as unacceptable to show public distain for gay men holding hands or kissing as it is to do so for a mixed race straight couple. It wasn’t long ago that bigots condemned interracial dating as disgusting. Now that attitude is dismissed. So shall it be for homophobia. That process starts not by me and others pleading for respect; but by us demanding it.
If participants in this thread are too dim to figure out who I’m referring to, then so be it. I’m leaving room for them to correct their ways without having to be called on it directly. Are you one of them? Does my admonishment strike too close to home? That’s up to you to decide.
*Early in life I had learned that if you want something, you had better make some noise.*Malcolm X
Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them, and these will continue till they have been resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they suppress.
Frederick Douglass
You’ve no idea how happy that makes me. In fact I think I’m finally getting my period.
Pretty much. The most obnoxious demographic in theaters where gay stuff is concerned tends to be young white males. The most dumbass homophobic stuff in the school newspapers at the colleges I’ve attended and worked at tend to be from white frat boys (especially the closet cases- at one school the most homophobic conservative editorialist later came out). I don’t expect more of them.
I do expect more of people who have had to fight intolerance throughout their lives, and most of the black people I’ve known well do in fact tend to have a more “live and let live” attitude than their white counterparts. They may not morally approve of homosexuality, but they’re less likely to show visible disgust at something as innocuous as a kiss.
I didn’t, nor did I say or imply that I did.
Did I say I hated them? I said I don’t approve of IV drug use as a valid lifestyle choice. It leads to all manner of social problems including but not limited to disease, crime, sexual indiscriminacy, domestic violence, etc…
Visceral yes. Audible, no.
Again, I did extend courtesy to others. I didn’t groan or express judgment. Had it been real heroin use I would have left, but cinematic… no.
Yes. That means they should try harder to controle themselves, doesn’t it?
Yes. The female/female scenes did not elicit the same reactions.
This is a rant, not a sociological treatise. However, it is funny and something I’m not the only person here to have noticed- a guy who goes to a movie with a girl will sit next to her. A guy who goes to a movie with another guy will more often leave a seat between them. Don’t take my word for it- check it out.
Why should they react audible at all?
Talk about your logical flaws. How is that a valid analogy?
Oh, I’d hoped it wasn’t that obvious. But, since cards are on the table, I’ll tell you a secret: I didn’t really have Rottweilers with me, and I didn’t really try to seal the exits. I did toss some anthrax into one couple’s popcorn, but we’ve all done that.
This is The Pit. You don’t have to be consistent. And frankly I think a venting rant is more polite and tolerant than a series of disapproving groans in a movie theater that anybody with bumblebee brains would already know has gay elements.
I have never expressed audible disgust in a movie theater when it wasn’t premeditated. This was theatrical, not visceral, in my opinion. “Approve of me, for I dislike the same people you dislike”. Fuck that joiner bullshit.
A city that has been running newspaper and news articles congratulating itself over how tolerant we are now over how we used to be still condones public displays of disgust over demographics. I see it as relevant. Am I saying it should be against the law? Of course not, but it was rude as hell and inappropriate and hypocritical of those who hate to be reminded of the horrors of Alabama’s past to continue to find such fault in a minor difference between you and your neighbor.
Not all, but many, yes. I am Southern, most of the people I love are Southern, and this does not mitigate the truth that many Southerners are reactionary and hypocritical.
More of insecurity, in some cases.
Yes. Absolutely. How major a character flaw it is can be debated, but it is a character flaw to be deliberately offensive to something that does not in any way threaten you.
No, fear of flight is a phobia. It’s quite logical to say that more money should be spent fighting heart disease than MS. And your line of argument on the subject is more stupid than anything you’ve called stupid.
In many cases, absolutely, and the U of GA study would tend to lend credence to that theory. In other cases it’s insecurity, in still others it’s faith based, in others its cultural, but we have, as the Civil Rights movement demonstrated, the power to transcend our rearing.
They are generated by similar causes, yes. There are many differences, but they are both prejudicial demographic based harmful qualities based on irration and xenophobia.
Five plus mule equals Jell-O. This makes as much sense as that statement.
Hold me…
Then leave.
I’ll write whatever the goddamned fucking hell I want to anytime I want to on this boards until such time as the Moderators tell me “No more anti-anti-gay rants”, whereupon I’ll end my subscription. You are totally free to make like Dion Warwick and “Walk on by” when you see the thread, I do that all the time when I see threads I’m not interested in and don’t understand why others haven’t grasped this little trick. But then many people never figured out how to use their off-buttons or change channels either.
Not liking it is one thing; audibly reacting to it does, and yes, in my opinion that does make them a homophobe or a bad person.
Brigham Young was the father of thirty-one daughters. I mention that because it’s just as relevant to the discussion as that post.
Nor does it give you the right to impose your views on others while they’re trying to enjoy a movie.
Having unexamined opinions CAN make you a hateful person, whether it’s about gays or blacks or Jews or Catholics or Muslims or little girls with pigtails. I won’t say it does so automatically, but it most certainly has the potential to do so.
Heh heh… he like used “thrust” and “asshole” in the same sentence and called me general! Next time I’ll wear the epaulettes and you bring the whip cream .
Please don’t set up another strawman and then pretend you’re striking some blow for human rights by knocking it down.
And it’s a poor debating technique to say “You know who you are” and then declare yourself morally superior. If you have accusations to make, make them. And bring evidence.
No one is making excuses for bigotry. No one ever said that but you. But since you seem not to be able to read anything but what you want onto other people’s words, let me try to spell it out for you more clearly:
Whether by genetics or by upbringing, we all bring a set of prejudices, biases, and generalizations to adulthood. All of us. If you are the one great exception to this, then bully for you. Otherwise, then as adults we must hold this ideas up to the light of reason and reevaluate them. Of course, this will necessitate modifying some of them. We may find that a better mode of thinking is not only more rational, but more beneficial. It’s called growing up.
I’m interested in seeing how you’re going to twist that.
That seems really stupid to me. Me, I believe that sexual tastes, preferences, orientations, and choices have a major innate component to them: whether you like or dislike men, women, swinging, monogamy, or nothing is going to depend to a major degree on your chromosomes. And the extent to which you like or dislike these is gonna depend on your chromosomes.
If someone gets really squicked out by seeing something on the screen, their reaction may well have a genetic component to it, no matter what it is that they’re seeing. Who, as long as they keep their fool mouth shut about it, gives a shit?
It definitely happens. I just, as I said before, don’t think it’s necessarily attributable to homophobia or even insecurity. For me, I’ve got different personal space issues around men and women, which are pretty slight, but which make me more comfortable sitting right next to a woman than to a man. I don’t think the man is going to give me cooties or turn me gay or anything.
Daniel
Well, actually, it kinda is.
Well, actually, it kinda does.
[Sally Jesse Raphael Personal Sharing Moment]It did me…
It was a matinee showing of Fletch Lives. Crowded in here, said my friend, sit next to me…
Before Cleavon Little was even in the movie, I was having thoughts about Patrick Swayze that I knew weren’t sent by God.
And when Hal Holbrook was revealed to be the bad guy, I was already wondering how my living room would look in mauve with Ikea bookshelves.
By the time the credits rolled, I had already joined the Ricky Martin Fan Club.
AND HE WAS STILL IN MENUDO AT THE TIME!!! [/Sally Jesse Raphael style Personal Sharing Moment]