“Pontifex of Primary Care”
Does that come the mitre, or do you have to supply your own ?
LL.M. programmes are usually one-year courses with a paper in a specialised legal field. It’s not usually considered a difficult degree to get and few holders of LL.M.s bother to put it on their business cards, etc. I’m not sure about LL.D. and S.J.D. The only people I’ve met with those degrees got them as honourary degrees, not as earned degrees.
In the U.S. the following are usually not (or never) addressed as “doctor” –
– lawyers with J.D. degrees, non-academics with Ph.D. degrees
The following usually are –
– physicians and surgeons (and medical specialists) with M.D.s or D.O.s. (or other specialised doctorate), psychologists with Ph.D.s, dentists with D.D.S.s, optometrists with O.D.s, professors with Ph.D.s (or other specialised doctorate), veterinarians with D.V.M.s, chiropractors with D.C.s – basically any health care provider or academic with the appropriate doctorate degree for his or her field
The following sometimes are –
– Ministers with D.D.s
“M.D.'s generally practice medicine as a trade while M.D./Ph.D.'s do research and advance the field.”
That is stretching the meaning of “generally.” A great many medical researchers have MD degrees only. As a practical matter, if someone is good at doing medical research (or at least good at getting grants), either an MD or a PhD will do. It’s looks good for an MD researcher to get a PhD but it’s really superfluous.
“The fact that M.D.'s and J.D.'s can still earn a Ph.D. after their training should be telling.”
You mean a person with a PhD cannot go on to earn an MD or JD? Says who? (As a practical matter, in the U.S. just about anyone who completes an MD program can get into a doctoral program somewhere and go on to earn a PhD whereas many people who earn PhDs can not gain admission into a U.S. medical school.)
“We don’t have readers and lecturers [in the U.S.]”
I haven’t run into any “readers” in the U.S. but I do know some U.S.-based “lecturers.”
“I’ll suggest that since an MD is taught, it’s simply some extended Batchelor’s program.”
Yes, in the U.K. But in the U.S., one cannot earn an MD (which takes normally 4 years) without first earning a bachelor’s degree (which normally takes 4 years). And in Germany, as I understand it, the MD can be a doctoral degree (requiring independent research) or can be “an extended batchelor’s degree” if they are just “taught.”
Actually, at every University I’ve attended and worked at, there are lecturers (I used to be one), which tend to be lower-ranking non-tenure faculty even than instructors. It seems that lecturers more often than instructors are part-timers and/or haven’t completed a terminal degree.
Actually, at every University I’ve attended and worked at, there are lecturers (I used to be one), which tend to be lower-ranking non-tenure faculty even than instructors. It seems that lecturers more often than instructors are part-timers and/or haven’t completed a terminal degree.
Re: law degrees
Everything above a JD is strictly for show, as far as I can tell. Most law professors, including tenured professors holding endowed chairs, only hold the JD degree – i.e., teaching positions that would demand a PhD in other fields. YMMV, but that’s been my experience.
A few UK medical schools have started to offer similar (“fast track”)courses. Needless to say, many MD’s aren’t happy about it, and have been keen to alert the public to what they consider a second class type of medical degree.
Since no one has done this yet i’ll do the honor.
Welcome to the SDMB moocher! 
(Runs and hide)
Ph.D’s are entitled to refer to themselves as “doctor” but, in my experience, doing so is generally the mark of either (i) a second-rate school, (ii) a degree in an academically marginal area, or both. Using the title is an invitation to ridicule, like lawyers who make a point of adding “Esquire” to their signatures.
If you have a Ph.D in physics or English, or you teach at Harvard or Princeton, you probably go by “Professor” and wouldn’t think of using the title “Doctor.”
On the other hand, it seems every assistant associate dean at the local community college, and every local school board bureacrat, is “doctor so-and-so,” with doctorates in things like school-board administration.
Case in point: I recently encountered a guy who insisted on being addressed as “Dr. ___” because he apparently has a doctorate in marketing. (They give doctorates in marketing?!)
Sir Doris, you’ve confused me.
It is my understanding that in the UK and on the Continent, one normally enters medical school directly from secondary school, typically at age 20, without first earning a bachelor’s degree in the liberal arts. In contrast, in the U.S., one normally has to graduate (leave) secondary school, typically at age 18, then complete a bachelor’s degree (typically at age 22) then complete an undergraduate medical degree (typically at age 26) before one is awarded an MD.
Thus the MD education in Europe is more like education in the U.S. for a trade (entered into directly from secondary school) rather than education for a profession (entered into only after completion of a bachelor’s degree). Of course, the comparison is complicated by the fact that a European baccalaureate earned at age 20 is more of an accomplishment than an American high school degree earned at age 18 but the fact remains that Americans finishing MD degrees have 2 more years of post-secondary liberal arts education under their belts than do Europeans. Or have things changed in Europe in response to the doctor glut?
Now I’m confused. Just to clarify, an M.D. is awarded upon completion of medical school. There is no degree between a B.A./B.S. and M.D.
I was under the impression that the degree awarded at this stage is a Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery degree, not a Doctor of Medicine degree.
When my wife completes her PhD, I’m going to call her “Doctor Sweetie.” 
This is completely contrary to my experience. Whether an instructor at Harvard or You’ve Never Heard Of It State, all faculty (at least Geology faculty) I’ve met and known are addressed as “Dr. _____”. Amongst peers, however, or in a non-professional setting, it’s always just “Chris”, “Elizabeth”, “Fred”, or whatever. “Professor ______”, however accurate a way to address a faculty member, is less seldom heard and almost comes across as archaic.
I agree. In my experience it is much more common to address a faculty member as “doctor” rather than “professor,” in person and in the media.
Not only do we have lecturers, as Pantellerite pointed out, but here in California they’ve been striking. They are definitely treated as lower status than professors and such, and their contracts are much more limited.
I tend to call teachers “Professor So-and-so” if I don’t know how they wish to be addressed. I so rarely need to formally make the distinction between the various levels that it doesn’t matter, although with the recent strikes many students learned just how many of their classes were being taught by lecturers and TAs.
“Now I’m confused. Just to clarify, an M.D. is awarded upon completion of medical school. There is no degree between a B.A./B.S. and M.D.”
Yes.
“Thus the MD education in Europe is more like education in the U.S. for a trade (entered into directly from secondary school)”
“I was under the impression that the degree awarded at this stage is a Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery degree, not a Doctor of Medicine degree.”
I think the degree that is awarded in Germany is something less than a doctoral degree unless the student completes a thesis which most do. I think that the Australians do give a Bachelor of Medicine or Bachelor of Surgery degree rather than a doctoral degree. I don’t know about the British or others but I don’t think they what they give a Bachelor degree because when they get to the U.S. they don’t seem to have the same problem the Australians have trying to get their medical degrees recognized here.
Since there is no such thing in the U.S. as a Bachelor of Medicine or Bachelor of Surgery degree, everybody trained overseas in medicine becomes a doctor (in both senses) when they arrive here.
Sorry!
I can only speak for the UK, since we have a different high school qualification (‘A’ levels rather than baccalaureate).
A student will typically takes their ‘A’ levels aged 18, and enters university in the following academic year (the same chronological year). Those reading medicine will follow a 5 year course which can be divided into a 4 year batchelor programme in medicine followed by post grad clinical experience, after which they are qualified to practice medicine. this link explains it in more detail.
However, as I mentioned in my previous post, some medical schools are now offering a “fast track” post graduate degree to graduates of any disipline. This is in response to the doctor shortage which we currently have, and which is anticipated to get worse in the next few years as the doctors we recruited from the Commonwealth around 40 years ago start to retire. However, many doctors appear to be unhappy about this and suggest that someone with a degree in the arts, for example, couldn’t possible cope with a medical degree. These are quite possibly that same people that object to PhDs being known as doctor.
and Pantellerite
that’s been my experience with American academics too. Professors seem to be ten a penny over there, but it’s the reverse here. It’s hard to do a direct comparison between the two systems, since actual qualifications needed to do the job vary between institutions, but I’m getting the impression that US lecturers are maybe more like our college of FE (further education) lecturers, and your professors (at least the lower ranking ones) are sort of like our higher education (university) lecturers, excepte they probably all have PhDs but that isn’t always the case here.
Just to add in a few last comments (although it seems most things has been said by now). Where I studied in the UK (The University of Birmingham) the medical course offered is the M.B/Ch.B (Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery) and the dental is the B.D.S (Bachelor of Dental Surgery), both courses are five years long and commonly started after high school (as mention by Sir Doris).
I was curious about the ‘fast path’ mentioned previously since I hadn’t heard about it before but checking on the university website I can see they are offering something similar. There is a four-year M.B/Ch.B program but only for people who have completed an undergraduate life sciences degree first. I can see the validity of this to a certain extent since the first year of the M.B/Ch.B covers a lot of the work that would be completed in a life sciences degree, but I’ve no idea how the medical community feels about it.
I seem to remember that there was a debate in the UK at some point about whether dentists should be referred to as ‘Dr…’ but that it is now generally accepted as much as the ‘Dr…’ title is for physicians. If anyone from the UK remembers differently please correct me, I could well be recollecting wrong!
All said, although neither of the UK degrees are officially a doctorate I have no problems using the title for someone who slogged away on a very tough five year course!
If I understand Sir Doris and grey_ideas correctly, the typical physician in the UK today earned her qualification at age 23 after FIVE years of post secondary education.
The typical physician in the U.S. today earned her license to practice medicine and surgery at age 27 after NINE years of post secondary education (4 years of “college,” 4 years of medical school, and 1 year of clinical practice traditionally referred to as “internship.”)
In Britain (and Ireland) the length of the course varies depending on the medical school selected. Academic training will last between four and six years, at the end of which time students are awarded their degrees, which are bachelor’s degrees. ( At my university a medical graduate got four bachelor’'s degrees - BA BCh MB BAO.) They are not licensed to practice medicine, however, until they do a further year of clinical training. Thus the entire process takes between five and seven years.
In the US the entire process takes nine years, but four of these will be spent studying something other than medicine, and possibly something wholly unrelated to the field. Newly qualified doctors in the US will be older and (presumably) more mature than here, but they may actually have less medical training.