Don’t know if this is the right forum for this question, but I want to make sure my account is working.
I was wondering which is the higher degree: a Ph.D. or a M.D. .
My brother went to Hopkins and a few of his friends went on to become physicians. Some of these M.D.s were of adamant opinion about people other than M.D.s calling themselves “Doctors”.
“If you don’t have a M.D., you are not a doctor” is the quote.
Well, it’s nice to have a physician who knows and has confidence in what he/she is doing (although I might not want to deal with the Alec Baldwin “I am God” type character" from the movie Malice).
I recently heard that a Ph.D can confer a M.D., but a M.D. can’t confer a Ph.D… So who “outranks” who?
Can a M.D. confer a M.D.? Or is the head of a medical school a Ph.D. holder?
As far as I know, Ph.D’s can’t prescribe medication. For example a psychiatrist (MD) can give someone a prescription for a medicine, while a psychologist can’t. (Last I heard at least. I hope I don’t have the two mixed up.)
I think PhD’s are given as a doctorate to anyone that isn’t in medicine (though I’m not sure). For example, someone that writes some huge thesis on Chaucer might receive a PhD in English, but they sure aren’t going to be qualified to perform your brain surgery.
An MD is a doctor of medicine, a DVM is a doctor of veterinary medicine, a DDS is a doctor of dental surgery, a JD is a doctor of laws, a DD is a doctor of divinity, a PhD is a doctor of “philosphy” (which comprises practically everything not already mentioned).
They are all different things. One doesn’t outrank another any more than an apple outranks and orange.
I would say your MD friends are wrong. There’s no reason to assume that “Doctor” means “physician” when it’s in a title. There’s a reason they call them doctorates after all. A Ph.D. can be acquired in pretty much any field, but required a lot of post-graduate work. JD’s (lawyers) are also considered doctorates in the US, but lawyers generally don’t call themselves Doctor.
It smacks of arrogance on their part, really. It sounds like they’re saying that medicine is inherently superior to literature, linguistics, foreign language, social sciences, biological sciences, engineering, and every other academic discipline out there.
The degree is simply a statement of having achieved that level of study in a given field. It is used to rank people in terms of their qualifications, but once you’ve reached that level, you’re no better nor worse off than your peers.
The MDs have it backwards. The term “doctor” in its original meaning does not mean “medical practicioner.” It meant a scholar. During the Middle Ages, a “doctor of physic” i.e. a physician, was but one type of doctor. A scholar who studied theology, or math, or history was also a doctor.
And so things went for hundreds of years. Academic titles became more formalized, and “Dr.” became the accepted title for anyone who had been awarded a doctorate (in whatever field.) Medical training also became more standardized, and M.D.s also were known as “doctors.”
The idea that “doctor” is synonymous with “MD” is a relatively recent idea (the last 100 years or so, from what I can make out in the OED.) It’s also an American one. In the US, the term “doctor” has fallen out of fashion for Phds because academics have gotten sloppy about titles. US academics either wantonly call anyone with a doctorate “professor” (a professor was originally more exalted than a mere doctor) or, since the 60s, have had their students refer to them by their first names.
In both England and Germany, “doctor” is still a perfectly normal form of address for a Ph.D., and indeed it’s considered rather odd to refer to someone by the incorrect title. (I remember utterly baffling a secretary at a UK university by asking to speak to “Professor X.” It turns out that X, despite his vast scholarship and seniority, was a mere Doctor.)
I would love to see one of these MDs take their “If you’re not a MD you’re not a doctor” line to a university in the UK or Germany and see them get their heads handed to them on a platter.
In the U.S. a J.D. degree, either a doctor of jurisprudence or juris doctor is not considered as high ranking as LLD, a doctor of laws. A lawyer who asks to be called “doctor” is a pompous ass, unless they are also a practicing health care doctor, of which I know a few. (And if you think doctors are arrogant, and lawyers pompous, try dealing with one who has both degrees!)
The honorific “Dr.” in the U.S. refers to someone in the health care field as a matter of usage, and some academics can still get away with it. Dentists, vets, chiropractors, psychologists (with a Phd) etc. are all properly addressed as “Dr.”
I have to add is that some medical schools offer an M.D./Ph.D program. These are longer than regular medical school programs and I would say that graduates do rank higher than normal M.D.'s in the scholarly sense. In short, the Ph.D. is a research degree while the M.D. is a highly specialized and difficult trade school. M.D.'s generally practice medicine as a trade while M.D./Ph.D.'s do research and advance the field. Ph.D’s. of other disciplines do likewise. I also believe that your M.D. friends have it backwards. A Ph.D. or equivalent (such as the ED.D.) are the highest ranks in any scholarly field. The fact that M.D.'s and J.D.'s can still earn a Ph.D. after their training should be telling.
Well, both are considered “professions” of a sort (there is some debate whether a PhD is really a “professional” degree, but it meets many of the criteria for a profession in the eyes of people who study these things). As such, they maintain their own gateways into their own profession.
That is, a PhD candidate is generally not declared a PhD until a committee of professors (most if not all of whom have a PhD or EdD) says he or she is. Similarly, a medical student isn’t really an MD until he or she passes the boards–which are, of course, administered and endorsed by others in the field. So a PhD can’t confer an MD and an MD can’t confer a PhD.
It’s silly, really, the debates over the title.
How do these MDs feel about a dentist being called “Dr,” I wonder.
A person who has earned a bachelor’s degree (arts or sciences) is eligible to apply for entry to a law school. Upon completing the course (generally three years) that person is granted a Juris Doctor degree (doctor of law — note the singular). This is the first level of law degrees and before the 1970s was usually known as a bachelor of laws (LL.B.). However, because those attending law school already had bachelor’s degrees it was thought that the initial law degree should move the degree-earner a step up, so the LL.B. was changed to a J.D. (on the model of an M.D.).
Once someone has earned a J.D., he or she is then eligible to try for a master of laws (LL.M.) degree. Only then may he or she go for a LL.D. (doctor of laws) or an S.J.D. (doctor of juridical science).
Over this side of the pond, a dentist would be rather offended to be called Dr, since they’re dental surgeons, and thus are to be called *Mr[i/], as are consultants (more senior medical doctors).
If I want to debate the “who is better” thing without causing offence, I’ll say something along the lines of what Wumpus has already said.
If I do wish to cause offence, I’ll suggest that since an MD is taught, it’s simply some extended Batchelor’s program. If I want to be the cause of apoplexy, I’ll ask why can’t they do it all in three or four years like anyone else
Seems to happen every year over here, that some MD pops up in the media demanding only “real doctors” should be allowed to use the title. I guess they’re insecure or something.
BTW, is the term "Professor"used to refer to pretty much any acacademic member of staff in a US university? My experience is that American academics seem to find “Dr” more respectful, whereas here Professor is the superior title (given it has to be conferred, usually along with a “chair”).
I am a PhD and go by Mr. in normal social environments. At my job at a University (I am professional staff – not a professor) I am well within my rights to be called Dr Xiao. This is a status/seniority marker, but half of the people I work with are PhDs. I could require people outside of the university to call me Dr, but most people in the US associate Dr with physician.
Another matter is that the PhD is the “original” advanced degree. The MD is much more recent (300-500 years).
In the United States, most, but not all, faculty members are professors, specifically, most of them are assistant professors and associate professors. (Full) professor is the highest rank. Below assistant professors are instructors, who are not tenure-track. (We don’t have readers and lecturers.)
It is correct to address professors, associate professors, and assistant professors as “professor,” but if the individual holds a doctorate degree it is more usual to address him or her as “doctor.” (At least, that was the case in the early 1990s.) “Professor” is considered more of a job title or description. “Doctor” is the individual’s personal title to which he or she has a right regardless of his or her current job.
It’s worth pointing out that in Ireland (and Britain) a physician is addressed as “doctor” even though he rarely has an academic doctorate of any kind. (He has bachelor’s degrees in medicine, surgery and obstetrics.) A consultant surgeon, who usually has the same degrees and may, ironically, also have an advanced degree which may be a doctorate, is addressed as “Mr” - and this goes for veterinary surgeons and dental surgeons also.
Academic staff are addressed as “professor” if they hold a chair, but only a small minority of academic staff hold chairs. Otherwise they are addressed as “Dr” if they have a doctorate or “Mr” or “Ms” if they do not.
As a doc who got his MD from Johns Hopkins, I’d just like to say “please don’t lump me in with those other idiots who insist that only MDs should be called doctors”.
Basically it’s an ego and insecurity thing that a lot of MDs have. I’ve got it too, but I’m getting better.
At my workplace, my preferred title is “Pontifex of Primary Care”.
