A few years ago I was studying for a doctorate at Cambridge (I dropped out) - I asked one of our seminar leaders about exactly this. He implied that it was very poor taste for anyone at the university to insist on being addressed as ‘Dr’ so-and-so, and that any visiting academics who introduced themselves as such would be subject to subsequent ridicule.
I gather that surgeons usually refer to each other with ‘Mr’ and ‘Mrs’ honorifics, despite holding medical doctorates.
One presumes that in both cases, because you are in an environment where [almost] everybody has a doctoral degree, the act of advertising that fact as a means of demonstrating status actually has the opposite effect. (Someone should do a study on that…)
I also note that books written by quacks usually state that the author is 'Dr [John Doe], Ph.D", whereas more reliable and authoritative ones simply state their names.
These days I move in professional circles, and I do a little cynical eye-raise every time someone has an email signature signifying a doctoral honorific (although perhaps that’s because I tried academia and didn’t like it).
That is actually a specific piece of ostentation. In England, historically, surgeons were tradesmen, and not members of the “Dr” class. They were called “Mr” because they weren’t doctors. The term became associated with the skill, and later, when Dr’s became surgeons, they insisted on the "Mr’ honorific to indicate that they were better than mere doctors.
It continued as a tradition in the UK and Aus (medicine is a bit of a conservative profession) but it’s falling/fallen out of use as more women reach positions of seniority in the profession. They, in a similar bit of pride, insist on /not/ being called Mr.
Of course, in a hospital, knowing what different senior people do is important basic knowledge, so having different titles in the non-uniformed groups was actually useful.
In the case of Cambridge (and Oxford), the reason was more probably the opposite. Until a couple of generations ago, many college fellows did not have doctorates. There was the lingering idea that the really brilliant graduates were appointed to fellowships without needing to do a higher degree. So they tended to pride themselves on being only ‘Mr’. That most would never become professors either - because college fellows then far outnumbered those with chairs - reinforced this inverted snobbery.
I was watching something on TV recently, and I can’t remember if it was a movie or series or American or British, but there was a scene with an office door – the kind that has frosted glass in the upper half and the name of the person who’s office it was painted on the glass. The name was followed by BA. I’ve never seen someone use just the BA with their name, and it struck me as really weird. Does anyone know of something else those letters might refer to? If it means anything, I’m leaning towards it being a British show.
Back when I was in academia, on those rare occasions when I had to wear those robes, I couldn’t help but think of Tom Lehrer’s line about “the quaint and curious costumes that we’re called upon to wear” even though that line came from “It Makes a Fellow Proud To Be a Soldier.” Seemed to apply better to academic than to military garb.
In college, students all addressed professors as “doctor,” but professors didn’t address each other as “doctor” (but they did refer to each other as “doctor” when speaking with a student) so I guess that kind of fits your rubric.
This. My father was a PhD chemist who changed careers to become a lawyer. At work (a prestigious firm), he was Doctor Lastname, I’d guess because the other lawyers didn’t have doctorates. When he worked in a lab, everybody just went by first names.
I agree with Melbourne. And in the early 20th century, it was common for graduates of Oxford and Cambridge to identify themselves as “John Smith, M.A. (Oxon),” or “James Jones, M.A. (Cantab),” for master of arts. It’s my understanding that if you earn a bachelor of arts at Oxford or Cambridge, you can then get a master’s degree with no additional work.
My ex is a professor, and when we had kids we painted ourselves into a truly dumb corner regarding academic titles. My ex wanted our kids to address her colleagues as Dr. Firstname, which was kind of endearing when our kids would say things like, “Dr. Jen, can Chris come out to play?”
But it got ugly really fast—when you start referring to a couple as “Dr. Jen and Mr. Brian,” you’re putting a very weird emphasis on who has a Ph.D. and who doesn’t. I’d have preferred “Ms. Jen and Mr. Brian,” but I went along with it. It became kind of mortifying.
I wasn’t a fan of that, but my ex did have a legit reason to expect her students to call her Dr. Lastname or Professor Lastname. She was a relatively young, female professor, and lots of undergrads assumed that she was a TA. Worse, when she team-taught with a male professor her age, some students at her big public university would call him Dr. Smith and address her by her first name. They’d also approach her to argue about grades, assuming she’d be “nicer” because she was female. Of course, that just made her less likely to change grades.
It was reasonable for her to insist on the respect that comes with the title and degree in that circumstance—or at least, that’s my opinion. She always went by her first name with colleagues.
I’ve just got an M.S. but exactly none of my ex’s colleagues thought less of me for it. I strongly agree with the others who say that any Ph.D. who insists on recognition of their degree from peers is a serious outlier.
There’s a reverse-prestige thing going on here: the more tightly you cling to your title, the more you imply that it’s all you’ve got.
Well, it very well could be that if you have enormous societal privilege, then you can afford to let that slip.
That’s why there’s a general tendency for women, historically disadvantaged minorities, and other people from disadvantaged backgrounds to be more insistent on their due respect than white men who already get plenty of respect regardless of stuff like this.
In the Monty Python sketch, **Raymond Luxury Yacht **(it’s pronounced “Throatwobbler Mangrove”!), he meets with Professor Sir Sir Adrian Furrows (F.R.S… F.R.C.S.F.R.C.P… M.D.M.S.(Oxon) M.A… PhD.MSc.(Cartab) PhD.(Syd) F.R.G.S.F.C.O.G. F.E.A.R.C.S. M.S(Brian) M.S(Liv) M.S (Guardalajara) M.S.(Karach) M.S.(Edin) B.A.(Chic) B.Litt (Phil) D.Litt(phil) D.litt(Arthur and Lucy) D.Litt(Ottawa) D.Litt (All other places in Canada except Medicine Hat). BSc 9 Brussels. Leige. Asse. (And Cromer)).
In the early 90’s I joined an industrial research group. One of the scientists had Dr. Firstname Lastname, PhD on her business cards. I was taken aback on the double emphasis until I saw how she and my other female colleagues were treated in business meetings (“Can you get us some fresh coffee?”:smack:). Then I realized it was a fairy reasonable reaction.
