Thanks to SDSTAFF Tom for an excellent bit of investigative work, but I want to add a word of caution to those who stop by for a cheese steak: for reasons that I don’t fully understand, several places in South Philly have developed reputations for great cheese steaks, even though they use… CHEEZ WHIZ®, for God’s sake.
If you want a really good cheese steak, go someplace where they respect the meat and use mozzarella and/or provolone: Mama’s, on Belmont Avenue in Bala Cynwyd, for example – although tell them to go light on the cheese and put it on after they cook the meat, unless you want a plate full of grease. Do bring your appetite, because the steaks at Mama’s are positively enormous: I can barely finish one, and I’m a serious trencherman.
Speaking of native Philly foods, I’d be interested in someone’s looking into the etymology of “Hoagie”, the native term for what’s known as a sub in some locales and a hero in others. The local story is that it comes from “Hoggie”, because the ship workers on Hog Island – who were mainly Italian immigrants – used to bring sandwiches that were basically leftover antipasto on a long roll.
I won’t purport to dispute another’s taste, and I prefer American on my cheesesteaks anyway. But Pat’s (who do, incidentally, make excellent steaks) invented the durn thing, and the original cheesesteak did, indeed, use whiz. You are correct, though, that regardless of the origins, whiz is no longer the standard: Most places default to American, and the most common orders (when anyone specifies) seem to be American and Provolone (the biggest difference being that Prov is a lot less greasy).
Also, a hoagie is not precisely the same thing as a sub. The buns are sliced differently. With a sub, the roll is sliced completely in two lengthwise, and then stacked roll-fillings-roll, as in an ordinary sandwich. With a hoagie, the roll is only sliced mostly through, like a hot dog bun, with the fillings nestled into the resulting trench. I’m not sure why the hoagie style hasn’t caught on in most of the country, since it’s much easier to eat without it falling apart (if the roll is good, you can eat a hoagie with one hand), and I know of no corresponding advantage to the sub-slicing.
Far be it from me to question a SDSAB member, but are you sure about Pat’s inventing the cheese steak? I mean, c’mon, it ain’t rocket science, and I’m sure that someone threw some chipped steak on a bun before Pat’s did.
I have had a Pat’s steak in the past 5 years or so, and whether or not they invented them, the one I had was nothing special – I’ve had many, in many different places, that were far superior. Next time you make it down to Philly from Montana, let me know and I’ll take you to Mama’s: they use what must be a half pound of meat, and a roll the size of your forearm (well, almost), and my only quibble is that if you don’t tell them otherwise they’ll toss a couple of handfuls of shredded cheese (mozz or prov) in with the meat and cook it. Tastes heavenly, but greasy! – so I usually ask them to toss on the cheese at the end.
As long as you’re giving us the straight dope on hoagies vs. subs – what about heros (or would it be heroes?)? Not hero(e)s like Cecil, but the sandwich. Any theories about why it was called what it was called, where the name arose, and whether there’s any substantive difference between it and a hoagie or sub? I’m guessing (folk etymology here) that the idea is that they’re so huge that it takes a hero to chomp one down – but that’s too cute to be true.
One final tiny quibble: neither CHEEZ WHIZ® nor American “cheese” is, properly, cheese. American is “pasteurized process cheese food”, and I’m guessing that CHEEZ WHIZ® is “pasteurized process cheese food product”. If you were anything less than a SDSAB member, I would probably not quibble, but I’m sure that Cecil beats you guys when you slip up (he appears to be very cruel to Little Ed).
Contrary to your quibble, japastor, it is possible to have processed cheese which is sold as “cheese” rather than as “cheese food.” It depends upon the additives. According to American regulations (Code of Federal Regulations), to be considered “cheese” in this case, it cannot have more than 43% moisture and must have at least 47% milkfat. By contrast, “cheese food” must be at least 51% cheese (additives include various unfermented milk products), moiture not greater than 44% and at least 23% milkfat. “Cheese spread” is even less restrictive. See Code of Federal Regulations, Title 21, Chapter 1, Part 133 “Cheeses and Related Cheese Products”
As you can see from 21 CFR 133.169(e)(2)(ii), “American Cheese” is pasteurized processed cheese made with cheddar cheese, washed curd cheese, colby cheese, granular cheese, or any mixture of two or more of these, combined with other varieties of cheese in the cheese ingredient.
I stand corrected, but whatever the legal definitions I don’t consider American to be in the same category as cheeses that are not made of chopped-up bits of other cheeses, any more than I consider sausage to be in the same class as a decent cut of meat. I am not sufficiently interested to be willing to spend the effort to look this up, but I suspect that the origin of American had less to do with aesthetics than finding a way to use up scraps and offcuts from cheese production.
japastor. Welcome to the boards. When you start a post and are referring to a column written by a staff member or by Cecil, we appreciate it if you link to the column. That way everyone will know to what you are referring.
It’s as easy as cutting and pasting, like this… Is the birthplace of the U.S. Navy in upstate New York?. Of course, in this case, you are only quibbling about the last sentence in a superbly researched and written article by SDSAS member Tom.
I’ve moved this to IMHO. While you were correct to start the thread in Comments on Staff Reports, I made the decision that you had no real quibbles with the report, only a tangential comment. And I’ll be glad to respond to this after I move the thread and post this explanation.
I actually beong to a group who have done quite a bit with the origins of hoagies, and similar sandwiches. I’ll be back when I get a moment, to link to some info.
Actually they are; places that sell both put them on the same rolls, and it’s also possible & common to order a cheesesteak hoagie.
There’s absolutely no reason to believe that Pat’s invented the cheesesteak; perhaps the cheesesteak hype. I live about 6 blocks from Pat’s and Geno’s by the way. They’re over market price & have the primary value to the native of being open 24 hrs. Aside from that, say at 6pm, pretty much any corner hoagie/pizza shop in the city can make you a comparable or better steak cheaper.
The cheesesteak certainly predates Cheez Whiz by a couple of decades at least. Personally I’m a provolone guy but whiz is “acceptable” as an option for many. Philadelphia Inquirer food critic Craig LaBan & I are in agreement that whiz is too salty & ruins the overall taste. But to each his/her own…
