Sir, I am very disappointed in you. You had the means, the understanding, and the opportunity to quickly, cleanly, and humanely deal with the issue. Yet you chose to delay, by hours, in order to spare your own feelings. You wrote that there was some “mercy” in the universe when you finally found the creature dead.
Yet there was none in you. You were completely concerned with your own feelings.
You recognized this was not rational. You claimed it wasn’t in the way you thought or something. Yet the thought occured to you pretty quickly, and you just welched on it. I sympathize with your emotions. But animals die; we all die. It is the way of things. If you are truly a Buddhist, and not a quasi-mishmash of good feelings leading nowhere, you’d understand that. You claim it was nice that the animal got to die in a meadow. I’m betting she didn’t particularly give a damn, she was dying. It’s not generally considered pleasant no matter where you are.\
So the nxt time you see one of God’s creatures dying (or Satan’s: I don’t particularly like deer), Man Up. It may be hard on you, but it’s a lot harder on them. I’m not asking you to massacre defenseless animals for kicks, but be a man about it, dammit! Even if you happen to be a woman (I’m pretty sure you’re not, but I can’t recall).
I don’t like killing either. I do it if I have to. I won’t even hurt an insect in the house for the most part - no need to kill something just because. But if I kill, even an insect, I’ll do it as fast and effectively as possible. Do likewise. Decide to act or not to act, and then act without hesitation.
As a Buddhist myself, I can relate very strongly to what Phlsphr was going through. Most Buddhists do not believe in harming sentient beings. It is, I imagine, against his very nature to do so.
What you’re asking is like for an Orthodox Jew to be able to eat pork without a second thought, or something, despite the fact that his whole life it’s been ingrained into him that eating pork is wrong. Imagine having to kill something for its own good when your whole body is screaming that it’s wrong to kill. This would take a great deal of personal strength, no? I agree it’s unfortunate that the deer suffered longer than necessary, but I feel like you’re having superhuman expectations of a human being by expecting Phlsphr to just jump up, grab a gun, and kill it without hesitation.
Was that thread for real? He couldn’t shoot an injured deer because he’s an “a-la-carte Buddhist?” More like an a-la-carte douchebag, as well as a total pussy.
And stupid, have I mentioned stupid? What made shooting the deer inhumane? Because guns represent the patriarchy’s phallic tool of repression, or some other half-baked hippie bullshit? Because the animals are, like, totally God’s creatures and stuff, man? Oh, and I suppose starting a thread and posting pictures in order to debate the situation was totally the humane thing to do. You poncy, granola-eating ass.
I figure, cut the guy a break. He obviously was not able to do it. He should have done it, he knows that, but he couldn’t. Some people have trouble with blood. He’ll do better next time.
He was asking for advice on how to kill the deer, though. His thread was even titled “How to kill a deer, humanely, without a gun.” So whatever moral objections he might have had to killing the animal, he had overcome by the time he wrote the post. He just, for whatever reason, didn’t want to shoot it.
I also don’t know that you’re right when you say “Most Buddhists do not believe in harming sentient beings.” Buddhism condemns harming sentient beings, but most Buddhists pretty much ignore that prohibition.
Well, it sucks, but the pit is the only place you can refer to a poster directly. There’s no middle ground. The only place he could post this was the same place where people will overinflate their anger just to insult people.
So he wants to call the guy out for his actions, but not have the guy flamed for it. Why shouldn’t he at least try to pull it off by appealing to the politeness of Dopers?
You’re right. I’m not sure what the difference is between killing something with a gun vs. some other object (other than the obvious fact that a gun would be most humane.) I still feel for him, though.
I wouldn’t know. I don’t know many Buddhists IRL. I try to follow that rule of thumb myself and from my past conversations with Phlsphr I believe he does too.
I do, but to be honest, it seem,s like most poeple use Buddhism as an excuse to believe whatever they want. There’s enough varieties of it around to cater to anyone’s feeling.
No. A blow to the head is an unacceptable form of euthanasia according the the AVMA. This is probably why the thread was posed in the first place. Most people, quite understandably, don’t know the approved, humane methods for dealing with a case such as this, involving an injured wild animal, and restraining it for a humane, effective kill. It’s a job best left to a veterinary surgeon, if available at short notice.
It’s preferable to letting the animal suffer and die in agony. I’m guessing Phlsphr has never been in this situation before. (Heck, the mouse today was the first time I’ve had to euthanise an animal.) For whatever reason, he chose poorly and the animal suffered for nearly four hours longer than it should have. He has a gun, but (I’m guessing again) felt that shooting the deer was ‘more violent’ than a means someone else might have suggested. It’s not, but the situation did not fit with his life experience.
Should he have seen the logic of the situation and used the gun? Absolutely. It would have been the most humane thing. Crushing the deer’s skull with a cinder block may not be approved by the AVMA, but it’s more humane than letting the animal die slowly over several hours.
I get that and even appreciate it but it seemed more of a directive (jr modding-ish) than a request.
Not to mention the OP was saying just man up and kill something - stop being a pussy about it. Disregarding that it’s not that easy for everyone. Do you he deserved to be pitted for his opinion? I don’t see any reason the OP couldn’t have expressed his opinion in the original thread.
I find the parent post confusing, but Phlosphr and I have talked on friendly terms about some of his posts not quite working out. So let’s just say I’m not pitting him, I’m pitting his post.
My own mind can be a bit foggy and there may be reasonable explanations. If so, I don’t mind apologizing.
This was from his OP which was posted (according to to my SDMB time setting) at 9:55 CDT. I live in Nashville. Boulder County, Colorado is one hour behind me which would be 8:55 am. The sunrise in Boulder County on June 25, 2010 was at least supposed to be at 5:36 am.
When Phlosophr posted his OP, he mentions the “graphic” images – although that tag could have been added later.
I don’t think that it would have been expected to be 80 degrees by 7:36 in the morning, however. The high for that day was forecast to be (and reached) the mid eighties.
Phlosphr took a camera to get a pix of a suffering deer or a dead deer? Either way, it turns my stomach.
The compassionate thing to do in the absence of a safe way of dosing it with sufficient tranquilizers, is to put it out of its anguish with a gun. Sometimes grownups – even Buddhists – have to do the rough thing. They suffer themselves rather than allow something else to suffer much, much more.
Don’t stand around and quibble or wring your hands when an animal is so obviously in pain.
BTW, I have seen the Dali Lami kill (on TV.) It was a gnat or a fly. He laughed at the time.
All I know is that for me using a firearm would be easier on my conscience than, well, just about anything else. Actually picking up a hammer and crushing an animal’s skull seems really visceral. With a firearm there’s a sort of detachment. I can’t understand why anyone would want to use any other method when a gun is available (unless a vet is available- I wouldn’t spend $100 putting an animal down quietly if I had a gun I could use- reminding everyone that I’m poor, however).
I once saw a documentary about Jain monks in India who round up sick and injured animals from farms and the countryside, and feed and tend them as they die agonising deaths. I was disgusted.
I’m not a Buddhist but I can’t see that a quick and humane end to this poor animal’s life falls outside the sphere of “loving kindness”. Millions of Buddhists in Thailand, Burma, Tibet etc. kill animals, every single day. The Dalai Lama loves him some yak steak.
It was a horrible situation, and I do sympathise with Philosphr to an extent, but really… if you want to kill the animal, and you’ve got something in your possession that is pretty much custom-designed to dispatch a deer humanely, why the hell not use it for its purpose?