My initial research shows the Digital Rebel lacks spot metering and likes to underexpose flash shots. The Nikon D70 seems to do a lot of things a little better but it seems harder to use and the lense choice is limited to Nikon.
I have been doing a lot of panoramic shots with my current digital camera and I would like to improve on the process. I also want to be able to bump the ISO up really high for flashless indoor shots so added noice is a real negative attribute.
So far I haven’t found a really good article comparing the 2 cameras. I’m looking for some real world advise . What are the real pro’s and cons, not just the technical date.
Something that you may not get from reviews is that DSLRs have a somewhat steep learning curve if you want to get the most out of them particularly if you are new to SLR cameras and post processing images.
FYI I am a Nikon shooter and I have a D100 as well as film Nikons so consider me biased if you want. I recognize the differences and advantages in each and made my choices for some of the following reasons.
Canon has slightly less low ISO noise but Nikon significantly less high ISO nose. The way I look at that Nikon still has excellent noise characteristics at low ISO that are undetectable in prints. At high ISO where noise is significant it makes a big difference making the Nikon very useable at ISO 1600. To be fair some people consider the Canon to have Better skin tones but the difference is extremely thin. The D100 at ISO 1600 and a 50mm f1.8 lens make a good low light combo. ISO can be forced to ISO 6400 equivalent but the image gets pretty ragged by then.
Note that the minimum ISO on the Nikon is 200, not 100 as on the Canon. This can actually be a drawback in some situations so I keep a 4x netural density filter handy if I want slower shutter speeds for motion blur.
Default settings are probably better in the Canon, that is to say you can take the camera out of the box and take pictures you’ll like. Nikons require a few tweaks but more important they add a custom curve feature that Canon doesn’t have in any of its cameras. This allows you to upload custom response curves that work with the in camera processing. This is critical when shooting JPG files as any post processing to do the same thing degrades the image. The downside is you need to spend $100 on Nikon capture software.
The D70 replaces the D100 so it doesn’t have any fewer features and adds quite a few. The 300D is a more amateur version of the 10D and has less flexibility. You may not have full control of autofocus and white balance settings in all shooting modes.
The D70 has a hybrid shutter like the pro Nikons so you can sync flash at 1/500 and it also has a far superior memory buffer than any other camera in its class. I’d love those features but have little else to complain about with my D100.
Lens choices? Canon uses only Canon lenses. Fact is with Nikon you can use virtually any lens made since 1977 including manual focus. I use my old AI manual focus lenses for studio work. My trusty old 85mm f2.0 gives great bokeh for portraits. Non-CPU lenses like those don’t have in-camera metering with the D70/D100 (they do with the Nikon pro bodies) but I’m using an external flash meter anyway. With Canon you can forget about manual focus lenses as they created a new incompatible mount when they switched to autofocus.
On the other side of the coin there are other bodies that can use Nikon lenses, the Fuji S1 and S2 pro as well as nearly all Kodak DSLR bodies. In fairness Kodak now makes a version of the DCS-14 that uses Canon body.
All that aside try the cameras out. I much prefer Nikon’s ergonomics. The Canon 10D feels like a brick to me and the DigiRebel feels like a cheap toy. YMMV.
Oh, one critical feature I forgot, instant-on. With Nikon you turn the power switch on and take a shot with zero delay. With Canon the camera has to “boot up” for a few seconds before you can take a shot.
Unfortunately ( I say unfortunately because im typically a die-hard Canon fan) I can’t recommend the Digital Rebel. It’s built in flash doesn’t come with compensation, leaving widely variable results, and its integration with the speedlights isn’t all that great either. If you show up on scene before shooting time and figure out the settings you’ll be alright, but it tends to be so cranky that on-the-spot photography is pretty difficult to get consistent results with. Haven’t tried the new Nikon yet.
This is a little misleading. The digital Rebel requires lens with Canon mounts of course, but most relatively recent third party lens with a Canon mount will work.
I just bought the digital Rebel and I took my old Promaster lens I had on my 7 year old Canon film SLR, and it works just great with the digital Rebel.
By the way alterego, my old Speedlight flash works great on the new camera too. But I confess to being disappointed with the built-in flash capability. I don’t know if it’s inherent to built-in flashes, or with this particular built-in flash.
I thought the digital Rebel had a spot metering capability, but I’m not sure. I know that you can manually select on (or more) of the seven focusing “spots” for focusing, but that is apples and oranges of course.
My point was the OP said that the D70 was limited to Nikon lenses which is a non-issue if he meant Nikon mount and not true if he mean only Nikon brand lenses. It’s possible that he thought it couldn’t use third party lenses but this is not true. The D70 an D100 can use third party lenses but those without a CPU won’t have in camera metering. Manual focus lenses and some early autofocus lenses have no CPU.
No suprise there but if your old Canon had been a manual focus model you’d be out of luck. There is an adapter to put manual focus lenses on a Canon AF body but because the backfocus distance is different the lens can’t focus to infinity.
Built in flashes are a pretty poor choice and that has nothing to do with Canon. Fact is that the digirebel’s flash is mounted a bit higher which makes it better than the 10D’s flash. Note that no professional DSLR has a built in flash as you are far better off getting the flash away from the lens axis. Don’t tell anyone but I do occasionally use the built in flash in my D100 but mostly just for fill in harsh lighting conditions.
It does have spot metering but the reviews I’ve read say that some shooting modes prevent the user from selecting the metering and white balance modes, forcing them to automatic.
You clearly are more informed about all this than I. I’m new to the digital world. I have a question for you. What is your recommendation for obtaining prints from the digital CF card? I’m not particularly interested in printing them myself because I’d prefer archive quality prints, and I don’t really believe it’s any cheaper in the long run.
Would you recommend an online service? Or should I just go to my local camera store, or local five-and-dime?
In rare instances (like now when I have a bunch of vacation pictures I’d like to share with others) I’d like to post them online somewhere and have the viewer have the ability to order prints. Do you have a recommendation for that? I have heard that Ofoto.com is good.
Thanks, I’ve just gone through a little of this before and if others can benefit from that experience I’m glad if I can help.
Don’t laugh but the best kept secret in printing is Costco. Prices are rock bottom and I can get sizes from 4x6 to 12x18 in an hour. Quality is outstanding and the machines are very well calibrated. Dry Creek has profiled almost every individual printer at every costco and has downloadable profiles you can use with Adobe Photoshop if you are really picky bout color. There are a few tricks I can show you if you’re really picky about scale and cropping but the self service kiosks are pretty straightforward. If you go this route choose a single location and get to know the people who run the photo lab. Costcos will have either Maritsu or Fuji printers and you’ll eliminate variables if you stick with just one.
As for online I don’t use a service. I have my own domain and put photos there if I want people to see them.
Padeye: thanks for the tutorial. I’m a new owner of a D100 and like it a lot. Actually, it was usable right out of the box, with the factory settings set up for general photography. Best part is being able to use all my 3rd party lenses and the instant start and shoot feature.
I had a Canon 35mm years ago and didn’t like the focusing system. I ended up selling it soon and buying my first Nikon. Perhaps Canon has improved on the problem.
Thanks Padeye, this was very informative. I appreciate the links posted (thanks SmackFu and Gorsnak) but dial-up makes it tough for me to look through them. But look through them I will.**
I really want a good low-light camera so the Nikon stands out.
Are the digital processors at places like Sams using a chemical developer or are they some kind of dye sub? I have an Epson 2200 but it is slow and expensive to use (as are all inkjets). I do like the archival aspect of the ink.
I can’t speak for every place but I’ve never seen dye sublimation done on a commercial basis like that. Everything is either a photographic print or large format inkjet.
If low light is really your goal you probably don’t want to get the kit zoom lens. The 50mm f1.4 is the fastest autofocus lens but the 50mm f1.8 is only half a stop slower and many people consider it one of the sharpest lenses Nikon makes and I’m very happy with mine. It’s a bargain price and I got mine used for $60. Remember the 1.5x crop factor so a 50mm lens has the angle of view of a 75mm lens. 85mm was my “normal” lens in film so it’s a good fit for me.
Oh, budget for a spare rechargable battery and the biggest memory card you can afford. IMO your starting point should be 1gb.
Well, while I’ve got your attention. I would like to start with a lense that has the greatest range. I looked at a 28-300 Promaster and it seemed to manually focus much better than my old Tamron 28-200 (I couldn’t focus on a moving object with it at great distances because the FOF was about the width of a hair).
My goal is to have 3 lenses:
the daily driver (28-300)
a good fixed lens for people
either a fixed telephoto or a good zoom for aviation shots
I already planned on a 2nd battery. Too bad Nikon doesn’t have a side button pack like the Cannon.
Remember the 1.5x crop factor, a 28-300 becomes the equivalent of a 42-450. IMO a ultra wide range zoom makes too many optical compromises. My daily driver is the Nikkor 24-85mm G lens. It has ED glass, aspherical elements and a silent wave focusing motor which is a lot faster than lenses that use the camera’s focusing motor. It ends up being a 36-127.5mm equivalent which isn’t bad. You’ll probably want to consider the D70’s kit lens as it has better wide angle capability.
I’d go with that, a 50mm f1.8 for low light and a 70-200mm f2.9 VR (vibration reduction) or if you want to spend half as much the 80-200mm f2.8. I think either of those will be ideal for event photography but you may want to go even longer if you’re doing airshows. There’s an 80-400mm VR lens too.
Actually that is one feature they took away. The D100 has an optional battery pack with shutter button and command dials on the bottom.
Thanks. As long as I live I will always appreciate the internet because I can find people like you. I learned long ago to find someone who is heavily involved in a particular subject and ask them questions. I bet I weeded out hundreds of hours of mind numbing research with your posts.
I had the 1.5 ratio backwards. No wonder the 28-300 lense seemed like a telescope.
I’m a recent owner of the 300-D, and I’ll ratify pretty much everything Padeye said, in particular the comparison of noise at high ISOs and the crippleware which limits the metering. A few things in defense of the Canon, though.
First, while it does feel a little cheap with the plastic shell, the compensation is that it’s light. With a single lens of reasonably small size, you’ll happily carry it around all day, whereas if you’re not used to it a heavier camera can become a burden.
Second, the built-in flash stinks. But at the prosumer level, they all do. I got a Sigma Super DG-500 and it’s treating me pretty well so far (though it’s only been a week). Whatever brand you choose, think of the price you pay on a DSLR (or a film SLR for that matter) as a tiny down payment on all the gear you’ll buy later if you really enjoy it.
Third, Canon supports the RAW format. I hated RAW for the first month, but I’ve really come to love the flexibility it gives you once you download the image to a PC. Check out Outback Photo for more on the RAW format and how you can learn to love it (warning: buy a bigger hard drive!).
Overall, I think if the D70 had been a little more available when I made my purchase I might have given it a better hearing because it’s a hell of a camera. But I also couldn’t be happier with my Rebel. It’s got out-of-the-box flexibility that allows an easy transition from the point-and-shoots and enough flexibilty of features to keep me busy until I’m ready to move up to a 10D or higher.
As the bodies get better and cheaper, a huge issue will be the lens platform you choose, as Padeye alluded to. If I were to do it again, I’d spend a lot less time on the exact first body’s capabilities and a lot more time on the Canon vs. Nikon accessory fight – you’ll own those lenses, flashes, filters, etc. for a lot longer than you’ll own the already-almost-obsolete body.
Amen. I have to confess that I didn’t do a diligent comparison between the Canon and the Nikon. The reason was that I wanted to re-use my existing Canon lens and Speedlight flash from my Canon film SLR. All I had to buy was the digital Rebel body (and batteries and memory cards, of course).
As an aside and follow-up from one of my earlier posts, after some research amongst my friends, I’ve decided on using photoworks.com for posting photos online for other people to order prints. This isn’t a capability I’ll need very often, but this site seemed the best of the ones I examined.
The Canon 300D is listed as 560g, and the Nikon D70 at 595g. Not a significant difference, IMHO.
Do you get full functionality out of third party flash units? If so that may be one advantage of the Canon. The Nikon D70’s sophisticated flash metering only works with their latest propriatory flash (SB-600 and SB-800).
Both the Nikon and Canon support their own propriatory raw formats. Although the software bundled with the D70 is not very good - if you really want to take advantage of the raw format you need to pay extra for the high end software. I don’t know if Canon does it differently.
Anyway I’m happy with the D70. I actually “downgraded” from the Fuji S2 Pro to the D70 (though it’s downward only in terms of price, not features) for the more compact size and better battery life. I’m very impressed by its speed - the short shutter lag in particular. My everyday lens is the same one Padeye has: the 24-85 zoom.