I found more recent stats at this Canine Behavior/National Canine Research Foundation site http://ncrf2004.tripod.com/id5.html and this was an interesting statement there under the 1994-1995 section:
**'The last 2 decades has seen the addition of millions of Pit bulls, Rotttweilers and Chow chows into the base dog population as a result of the increased popularity of these breeds in the United States.
If certain breeds (i.e. Pit bulls, Rottweilers) were inherently dangerous or vicious then the emergence of millions of these dogs into the population would be reflected in a dramatic increase in the number of fatalities per year.
This is not the case, as the number of fatal dog attacks per year has remained rather consistent over the last 40 years.
In 1955 there were 10 fatal dog attacks in the U.S.
In 1995 there were 13 fatal dog attacks in the U.S.
It must be emphasized that fatal dog attacks are exceedingly rare events.
There is an estimated population of 55 millions dogs in the United States. There are approximately 20 human deaths per year due to a dog attack.
Therefore, an infinitesimal percent (.0000004%) of the dog population is involved in a fatal attack.’**
We can actually hear dog fighting late at night in our somewhat rural area. The police officer who responded after animal control ignored our repeated calls was actually horrified hearing the noise, tracked down the house it was occuring at, but was unable to locate anyone on the property. Better enforcement by animal control officers in my area would certainly help.
Regardless, I think public education is a partial answer to the OP and the problem. Fighting dog issues (and assholes) aside, some owners are obviously not aware it is not safe to leave children and dogs unattended. It is not wise to allow your dogs to roam freely. Getting a dog strictly for protection purposes and encouraging aggressive behavior makes it more likely your dog will maim or kill someone. Should new owners and new parents be required to take educational classes teaching basic responsibilities? Would the media be a solution? The Humane Society?
Are there stats that distinguish between deaths and maulings and bites - cause there must be a fair number of near fatal maulings that obviously don’t show up on the death stats.
Since you are positive that there are lots of dog packs in the cities I won’t argue with that. I do not believe that the majority of Americans have been around groups of homeless dogs though, which is the point I was trying to make.
I’ll believe it when I see it. IME there are two groups today involved in dog fighting. One group is comprised of poor, inner city people, both black and white. They are the ones currently being sporadically arrested for dog fighting. The arrests are sometimes difficult for the police not to make. I was involved with a case where an inner city man was “training” his dog inside a chest freezer that had been dumped behind a house. He was putting his dog in the freezer and tossing in cats and small dogs for his dog to rip apart. Neighbors complained.
The second group is made up of upper middle to upper class white males. Their fight locations are often large barns in the country. They are well organized, and even keep statistics similar to the NFL or MLB. Their circle seems to overlap with militia-types and other fringe groups. They are scary. I do not see local police getting involved in their “sport”.
Comparing the two groups, the first is like a floating craps game, while the second is a secret casino.
pit bulls don’t make a lot of noise when they fight; no barking, no growling, etc. they quietly grab hold and shake. when other dogs fight, they make a lot of noise and put on a big impressive display, but don’t usually do much damage.
i think many people might reconsider the idea of an aggressive guard dog if they were aware that a criminal can sue you from prison for the injuries your dog inflicts, even if the attack occured while the victim was committing a crime.
I think the inner-city ones are hard to break up. The location changes at the last minute, and by the time the cops get wind of it, it’s practically history.
The country dog fight people…I’d be willing to bet the cops are in on it. When you’re talking that kind of organization, you need to buy protection, and are easily capable of affording it. These guys are raking in the dough. Believe it.
the city dog fights are often nothing more than “hey, you have a dog, i have a dog, let’s throw them together and bet on the outcome”. they don’t care what happens to the dogs. these are the people breeding dogs that are problems.
the country people are an extremely secretive group, and there really isn’t much money in the actual fighting. most of the prize money for the winner goes into medical care for the dogs after the fight. the money for this group is in stud fees and selling puppies from dogs that have been proven. to break up a ring, it takes years to infiltrate deep enough to even be invited to an event-you need lots of established people to vouch for your trustworthiness. these are guys who take great pride in their breeding progams, and aren’t about to throw away years of hard work by inviting someone who might be a cop.
I think you’re right on the medical care aspect. However, I was referring to the gambling aspect of it. If they weren’t getting rich it wouldn’t be such a fast-growing event.
I wanted to jump in here with two personal experiences related to the training of these dogs.
One. I was an office manager for a trucking firm. One of the drivers brought in a pitbull puppy and left him in the office while he met with the dispatcher. The puppy was wonderful, friendly, tail-wagging, etc, a pure delight. He came in and saw his dog being friendly and got pissed. He beat the puppy in front of us, proclaiming that his dog would be “macho”, not friendly. That is how “his people” raise them, he said.
Two. Neighbor had another full grown pit bull raised the same way. It would try to attack just about anyone at unexpected times but was well tied up. After I moved away, I read about this dog attacking a neighborhood kid. What was the quote attributed to the owners? You guessed it! It went along the lines of “But this was so unexpected. The dog is a family pet and very lovable.” Bullshit, Bullshit, Bullshit!
Put me into the camp that believes that the raising and training is responsible for unleashing the aggressive side of these dogs.
a retired adult dog with a good pedigree that is a proven producer can easily go for $5-10K. an exceptional dog will have maybe 4-5 fights in his career by the time it is 4-5 years old, but can be bred hundreds of times (typical stud fee of $1k) and puppies can go for $1k each. sensational news stories about tens of thousands of dollar bets are typically based on unsubstantiated rumor.
when you have people like that breeding dogs, it’s no wonder the breed is in trouble. the pit bull temperament was never supposed to be “macho” to people. even in the guardian breeds, dogs should not be hostile to nonthreatening strangers.
I agree entirely. Dogs bred by assholes for quick cash and raised by assholes looking for some kind of machismo enhancement will nearly always be troublesome. When the dogs these low-lifes prefer are big, muscular, and tend to seriously chomp rather than just nip or bite, it is a recipe for disaster. Mandatory chipping, neutering and registration of breeders and sales is the only real solution, IMHO, but I think the cost and intrusiveness would make it a political non-flier.
Owning a dog is different to owning a parakeet or a hamster because as well as all your responsibilites toward the animal, you also have a duty of care to your fellow citizens which doesn’t come with most pets. The fact that a lot of people don’t live up to their responsibilities is, sadly, nothing new.
In the UK there was a very well-publicised spate of maulings by assorted big dogs that lead to the Dangerous Dogs Act which is breed-specific after a fashion*. Since then there have been periodic incidents but no further public outcry - I have no idea whether it made a significant difference, although if you note the formidable pre-existing statutory instruments it would seem there have been plenty of ways of dealing with dangerous dogs before the act came into force.
I saw one episode of a ‘life of a vet’ documentary series where the vet was called out to a farm by the police to determine whether a mutt was a ‘pit-bull’. He measured its proportions, ran down a tick-list, determined that it was according to the rules, and euthanised it there and then. Seemed a perfectly nice dog, and it didn’t exactly make his day
Why would it be unenforceable? Pitbulls and some other breeds have been outlawed in France years ago (more following their use as an intimidation tool in disfranchised subburbs you might have now heard about than as a result of a large number of accidents).
Breeding them or importing them has been prohibited, all the ones already owned had to be sprayed and to be walked only muzzled, and finally they are considered a “weapon by intent” in case they are used in the commission of a crime (so, assaulting someone with such a dog by your side is equivalent to assaulting him armed with a gun, from a legal point of view).
As a result, from being a common sight, they mostly dissapeared from the streets and will probably have soon completely dissapeared.
Of course, you could still secretly breed some and keep them hidden in your basement, but who would do that?
Quote:
pit bulls don’t make a lot of noise when they fight; no barking, no growling, etc. they quietly grab hold and shake. when other dogs fight, they make a lot of noise and put on a big impressive display, but don’t usually do much damage.
True. But this was screaming. Horrible, terrible, dogs screaming.
Yes. A reat dane owned by a neighbor of mine when I was a child would aggressively bark at anyone coming close to his property. He was eventually put down when he ripped off one of his owner’s ear.
Great Danes are one of the rare breed of dogs I’m warry of, probably due to this one (these dogs are just huge rom a small kid point of view, especially when they’re barking and looking at you like they would really want to torn you to pieces if only there wasn’t this nconvenient fence).
The people who operate illegal dog fighting clubs are already doing it and would continue to do so. There are too many in the shadows to control the ones that are the biggest part of the problem.
Depends on the problem under consideration - fatal dog attacks, or dogfighting?
Most attacks are down to ‘pets’ - I doubt there are many instances of dogfighters being killed by their animals ( unfortunately) and I also doubt their dogs would be spending much time in contact with other members of the public, particularly if they are liable to be seized and destroyed if reported.
I haven’t seen anything that I would class as a ‘pit bull’ in the UK for ages either - Staffies and English Bull Terriers, but no pit bulls. Mind you, I live in central london, which isn’t really dog territory.
You’re right. I kinda blurred my dueling issues here. The dog fight people are already raising these animals in the shadows. They probably won’t be caught. The run-of-the-mill killer pet population will most likely go down if they were to be outlawed (and I still don’t think they should be…as much as I hate 'em anyway).
