Ooops, that second quote was from Dumbguy and I meant to finish that last sentence:
Redfury, the anecdotal evidence that a doberman can be as tenacious as a pit bull might not sway many people. Doberman’s are generally thought of as guard/attack dogs.
That’s what I found so shocking. I mean, nothing about a Newfie is remotely “pit bull-like.” To call a long-haired black dog of that size a “pit bull” is just terrifyingly ignorant.
I realize that. In fact that is the point I’ve been making all along: it’s not about the breed (again, as long as it’s mentally stable/healthy), it’s about the way they are raised.
In fact, when I posted that long quote from the link Caridwen I was hoping to highlight the following part of it:
**Breed-specific legislation does not
address the fact that a dog of any breed can become
dangerous when bred or trained to be aggressive.
From a scientific point of view, we are unaware of any formal evaluation of the effectiveness of breed-specific legislation
in preventing fatal or nonfatal dog bites.**
A point made by myself and a few others in this thread. And a point that perfectly logical to me as an owner of owner of one of those so-called “demonized” breeds.
Notice how I also compared my Dobie’s temperament and that of the guy’s across the street. And why.
*Please read as follows: “as an owner of one…”
That part you highlighted actually annoys me.
Uhh, isn’t that the CDC’s job? There are several juristictions that have had breed bans for a while, why not do a formal evaluation and prove it one way or another. Lack of a study doesn’t negate the common sense thinking that banning the most frequent culprit will cut down on total attacks. Sure, maybe another breed will suddenly take up the slack, but I’m not assuming.
How is a parent supposed to know just how dangerous or not your dog is?
CarnalK,
Let’s try to think about this logically for a minute.
Sure, you ban those breeds which are currently on record* as being the “most vicious” and there would obviously be a drop in attacks by same since they are no longer around. But, OTOH, the assholes that are into training dogs to act like feral animals are still going to be around, right? So it only follows that they’ll take up any other large dog and train it in the exact same way. Granted, it might take some time – cross-breeding, inter-breeding, etc. – to “create” another lethal weapon type of dog. But it can and will be done as long as the will is there.
It’s really not rocket science at all. Training and breeding is all it takes. In fact, how do you think the Doberman came into being?
Actually, I would “snatch” my kids away too if they were running towards a strange dog. Not because I think your dog is any more dangerous than any other, but because A. I don’t know your dog and B. I want to teach my kids to respect dogs and their owners, and to let sleeping dogs lie, literally.
I’d ask, “How is your dog around kids?” or “Do you mind if she pets him?”, while telling my kid, “Remember, don’t pet a dog without asking first. Now be gentle! No, not his eyes, pet his back.”
I’d ask that whether he was a pug or a pit bull or a great dane. Any one of them could, if raised wrong, kill my 20 pound toddler before I could intervene, just as she could blind any one of them with an overenthusiastic poke if I don’t teach her not to touch their eyeballs.
And yet they continue to kill people at a much higher rate than dogs.
If we want to be obsessive about safety (and apparently we do), shouldn’t we at least learn to gauge what’s a real danger and what isn’t?
Maybe. A lot of bad owners aren’t necessarily trying to train a “feral animal”, they might just be idiots. If there is no obvious “tough guy” dog available for sale they might just buy a cool truck or a shotgun instead.
How do you feel about banning the ownership of leopards or bears? Those kill a lot less than swimming pools, yet I can’t go out and buy one. Fucking Nanny State!
Honestly, there is no way to know. And I think dog owners are safer when parents tell their children that the bad doggie will eat their faces off.
I don’t know what the facts are surrounding pit bulls and don’t care because frankly perceptions alone are costing me a small fortune! We placed our home on the market right before Thanksgiving and in a relatively hot real estate market (Katrina country) haven’t even had so much as a nibble. Comments left with agent? The THIRTEEN pit bulls our next door neighbors have are turning buyers off.
Yes, I’ve called the local SPCA and up to 12 adult dogs are allowed at any given time on a half acre city lot AND puppies under 3 months do not count toward that total.
Guess who will be installing a wooden privacy fence between the two back yards and drastically reducing the asking price of her house? I get pissed off every time I think about what our stupid, trashy, pit bull loving new neighbors have done to the housing prices on my block. And yes, I’ve already bought a new house and am carrying two house notes just to get away from them.
The only sensible thing to do around ANY unknown animal/dog, kids or no kids, is to stay away from it until you know better.
Again, just because a dog is small and pocket-sized “cute” does not mean, by default, it’s a “cuddly little thing.” The reverse, of course, also holds true, i.e., just because it’s a large, mean looking dog, doesn’t mean it isn’t a “cuddly big teddy bear.”
But I’ll also go back to what I wrote in one of my prior posts: no doubt the bigger the dog, the larger the potential for it to inflict greater damage. Rather obvious it would seem.
BTW, when my son was about three he got bit by a toy poodle. Didn’t lose an eye by a mere fraction of an inch. Little shit (the dog I mean) couldn’t have weighed more than 8 or 9 pounds.
I LOVE dogs, specially BIG dogs and Dobermans most of all – they just have the perfect character traits in what I look for in a dog. But I also respect them all – including my own. Common sense.
Well I was going to tell the story of a pit/lab mutt of my acquaintance, but it turns out he’s a lab/argentine mix. So I’ll wait til there’s a pit thread about argentines to post it.
In another recent thread, someone was talking about a Dogo that got lumped into the “pit bull” category and (I believe) destroyed.
So you accept that certain breeds have certain character traits but don’t accept that pit bulls could have, on balance, wholly negative character traits- it’s all training?
Demand and supply. If there “no obvious “tough guy” dog available” you can be damn sure some amoral, money-hungry breeders will come up with a few. Pronto.
It’s just not that difficult to “make” a mean dog. Really.
Definately an owner problem rather than the dog breed in my opinion. Appreciate that some dogs are more capable of harm than others but really the only answer to the problem is to regulate ownership properly. As previous posters have mentioned, outlawing a particular breed will only move the problem onto others breeds.
Properly raised i doubt any dog breed cannot be made as safe as can be expected (yeah there will always be some dangers).
I’ve seen my Border Collie with my toddler’s thumb right in his eye socket. Didn’t even move away until i told him to cause he was in a ‘stay’! Sigh, if only training toddlers was as easy as Collies…
Used to have a Rottweiler too. Wonderful dog. Raised him from a pup and taught him not to bight people. Used to play tug really really rough until he was all worked up, barking, snarling and snapping at his toy. Then i flicked the toy behind my wrist and put my forearm straight in his mouth. Would get scratches from his teeth but he never ever bit down, he actually backed off immediately and calmed right down until the toy came back into play. That was just the result of firm training from young. You can train them to do anything if you put the time in.
But hey, as for the assholes that either don’t take the time to train properly or even worse train them to be aggresive, well…you know…hope they get their balls bitten off…
My understanding of the breed is that they have the very strong jaw muscles, and their front teeth are curved inwards (to the back of the mouth) more than most other breeds. Add the relatively wide maw to the jaw muscles of a bulldog, and you have a dog that is very good and bred to tear flesh.
A bulldog has the strong jaw, but short sharp noncurved teeth which are bred to hold onto a bull but not damage it too much.
The pit bulls are bred to be very strong and muscled for their size.
That being said, as a breed, pit bulls are generally pretty nice and manageable. The problem is that if they do nip or bite they are likely to do a lot more damage than many other breeds because of their bite strength and curved teeth.
That’s what a guy told me in a bar, which is as good an explanation as I’ve heard.