I guess that explains all those headlines about poodles/retrievers/collies/setters/spaniels/saint bernards/shephards ripping through children’s throats. After all, any dog can have a bad owner, right? You might as well say it’s oxygen.
Look, we’ve had enough headlines by now for the sentient to realize that there is something different about these dogs. The combination of tempermant, power, and ferocity can be lethal. Can they be raised to be sweet and docile? Absolutely. My friends have the most ferocious looking dog I’ve ever seen: part pit, part rotweiler, part mastiff (as far as we can tell). But he is the sweetest, biggest baby imaginable. But any breed of dog is going to have good owners and poor owners. If a golden has a bad owner he becomes skittish and might snap. If a small dog has a bad owner he might tear at your pants leg. We’ve seen too many times what can happen when pit bulls have bad owners.
I’d be for having potential owners sign a statement acknowledging that they understand that if things go bad with a pit people can die, and that they will be fully liable and will be subject to additional jailtime if found to be negligent. Part of the sentence should be a tatoo inked onto to their forehead that can never be removed: “I am one dumb fuck.”
You know, that could have been a useful comment if you had actually pointed out what there job was and how it’s not in their purview, which it appears you don’t actually know.
Seems I may have looked in all the wrong places with regard to pit bulls and have vastly under rated their intelligence. According to the American Pit Bull Registry
I would never own a Pit Bull because, as the Dog Whisperer says, I’m not a great pack leader. Millan believes a good pack leader controls his dog through exercise, discipline, then affection. I tend to be affection, minor discipline and exercise- when-it’s-a-beautiful-day. That’s why I have beagles. Even with my lax discipline style, Buddy the Beagle is a naturally sweet, submissive dog.
Pit Bulls can be wonderful pets if they are paired with owners who are great pack leaders. The owners definitely need to be consistent and firm disciplinarians. If you’re not capable of doing this, you shouldn’t own a Pit Bull. Unfortunately, not everyone is educated or self-aware enough to know whether they can handle this type of dog and the results can be disastrous.
You’re seeing correlation and assuming causation. Yes, pit bulls make up a majority of attacks in headlines. Ignoring the fact that the most common dog bites are actually from yappy little annoying dogs like chihuahuas and the like, the reason pit bulls make up the majority of major maulings is because the assholes who want big aggressive dogs are most likely to get pit bulls. 20 years ago they were most likely to get Dobermans, and 20 years ago it was Dobermans in the news for mauling kids. 40 years ago it was German Shepherds, and it was Shepherds in the news for mauling kids. Are you seeing a pattern here yet?
Labby Mutt owner here. American Pit Bull Registry appears to be full of shit. Every time I have looked into Dog guides, what dog is right for you sites or AKC guides, they list Border Collies #1 for intelligence.
By the way, a bored Border Collie is quite mischievious and yet still very unlikely to bite people unless seriously provoked.
I don’t know how many different ways, or how times this point has to be made. I don’t know why people like you are blind to a particular point. What no one has established is the distribution of dogs by breed across the spectrum of owners. Poodles/retrievers/collies/setters/spaniels/saint bernards/shephards have fuck-all to do with it unless they are owned by the same folks who own the alleged pit bulls. Can you stop your knee jerking long enough to condisder that maybe, just maybe, a disproportionate percentage of people who own alleged pit bulls encourage their aggressive behavior, and resist neutering? That in fact it is the environment that creates a bad dog? Sure, a territorial, unsocialized, dominant Jack Russell is not as dangerous as a pit bull, but I wouldn’t want my kid around one. But most folks don’t reward Jacks, or poodles, or collies for aggressive behavior.
It’s the owners. It is not the dogs.
I have long held a theory that concurs with your experience. Maybe i’m way off the mark but i reckon that’s also why cat’s are so damned hard to train for obedience.
The standard method of training a dog basically requires it to be a little stupid really. Yes of course we should reinforce training throughout life but i can’t remember the last time i gave my collie a treat for coming when called, yet he does it every time without fail because i trained him that he got a bisciut when he came. He probably has long forgotten why he does it now but he still does, or maybe he still expects a biscuit every time and hasn’t figured out he doesn’t get them anymore.
I’m a huge Collie fan but when people often quote them as the most ‘intelligent’ breed i’m inclined to say most ‘trainable/obedient’ which isn’t necessarily the same thing.
See cats, got it sussed they have. Don’t shit on the couch or tear up the curtains and you’ll get fed every day and have a lap to sit on whenever you want. Never mind all that obedience nonsense, do whatever you want the rest of the time, you’re the boss!
Oh and, Guinastasia, your last sentence sounds spot on, were you even thinking about animals when you typed that bit?
Psychologist Kathy Coon ranked dog breeds by intelligence in her book The Dog Intelligence Test based on a standardized intelligence test for dogs.
She placed the Border Collie #1.
AKC was only one of my references. In some of my links which are mostly not AKC, you will see the pitbull is not top 10 in any study or survey. I saw it as high as 15th. Its close companion in the AKC ranks the Bull Terrier was in the 60s or slightly smarter than “dumb as a rock”.
Still stand by my obedience/trainability rather than intellect Jim. Last i heard we were still struggling to reliably define/measure intellect in humans so i ain’t putting much weight on that measure for dogs.
Love my scruffy Collie to bits i do though. I don’t think of him as anything special but i reckon he knows at least 50 commands. I might comprimise and add memory to the list of talents but still, it’s still not intellect.
Pit Bulls are terriers? That explains a LOT. Terriers are known for being stubborn, independent, and very assertive. Very feisty little creatures. I have a Westie and she’s incredibly smart-and incredibly bad. We just can’t trust her on her own. She’s sweet, but a total handful.
I don’t know about genetic tests but there are ways of determining what breeds are in a mix. We adopted a Husky mix when I was a kid; a vet later determined the other breeds involved were a Samoyed and a German shepherd.
I’m trying to figure out how a psychologist is an authority on dog intelligence. How are they defining intelligence? Trainability? My old animal ethology professor would be rolling over in his grave.
Not that I don’t love border collies! But we really are a self-important species that gauge how intelligent another species is by their ability to understand us.
My posts were not so much to show how intelligent Border Collies are, and they really are very intelligent* for dogs. It was to completely prove that the American Pit Bull Registry was full of it. I would also say that while I trust the many cites and anecdotes from the users in this thread. I would trust almost nothing from the American Pit Bull Registry. I also would not trust much of anything from any cite devoted to just a single breed of dogs. It would be like quoting a Friends site that Friends was the #1 show of all time.
Jim
They are excellent problem solvers on top of extremely trainable.
Mine is just a silly young Labby Mutt. She is friendly and fairly trainable. She bugs the cats but has never tried to bite them and actually treats are older cat as the dominant animal in the house. Becky lets Velcro our little 6 pound queen cat; eat from Becky’s bowl first.
I have known several Border Collies and we use to have one. It is not really fair to have a border collie as a house pet, they need to work and want to work. My old border collie was so bored he used to herd up all the leaves in his large dog pen every day. The dog pen in question was an old horse corral and surrounded by oak trees. He, like most of his breed had unlimited energy and was extremely trainable. I knew some working border collies and they are the greatest dogs in the world, my poor Angus was just a bored out of his wits. We almost got him some sheep.
Sad thing is, I think she’s smarter than I am.