This is right on the mark. It sounds like some of you folks need to watch a few episodes of The Dog Whisperer. Dogs behave as trained (or not trained). They are pack animals and need to know their place in the order. If nobody has taught them that a behavior is unwanted and unacceptable, they will continue to not only exhibit it, but it will escalate to the point of being uncontrollable. Cesar Millan has a yard full of pit bulls and pit bull mixes that he routinely takes people into. The dogs are balanced and unaggressive. They know who the pack leader is (Cesar) and are all happy, curious and affectionate.
You are doing a lot of assuming in this thread, but you don’t have anything to back it up except your impressions and guesses.
You have been wrong about virtually everything you’ve said.
Almost right. the less intelligent the human, the less control the human has. Dog behavior is shaped by operant conditioning; repititive tasks that are rewarded. Actually, the more intelligent breeds are harder to keep trained, as they are more easily bored with training and are constantly testing the boundaries.
A reflection of the owner mayhaps? 
Funniest line in the thread. 
I like border collies a lot, they are very smart dogs. Sounds like yours might be Abbie Normal, even a Pekinese knows there were no WMDs.
Jim
Great show. Watch it all the time. Cesar’s amazing.
I only partly agree with you here. With mine, I found training to be extremely easy. The most it took was three to four reps for her to learn any particular task (guess her gluttony for treats helped as well). OTOH, yes, no doubt, she pushed and pushed to test her – and mine – boundaries. No longer an issue though. Things are well established around here, to the point where she knows exactly what furniture she can lay in or not.
A friend sent me this link, so I’ve paid the fifteen bucks to post my $.02…
My husband and I have a pitbull mix puppy, just about 8 months old. We did not set out to adopt a dog of this breed, but after searching and searching the rescue shelters in the San Francisco Bay area, we found that the shelters here are crawling with them. I’m sure many of you are going to post that it’s because they’re such evil scary dogs, so I’ll spare you the story of how my puppy was most likely stolen from a responsible owner (who had him neutered) and then dumped in the streets. I grew up with large dogs - labs, german shepherds, a rotweiler and even another pitbull mix. Since we just bought our own home, have a large backyard, no desire to have kids, and a genuine interest in dog training, we thought we’d be great candidates for raising a pitbull mix.
Our puppy is amazing. He is a legend at the dog park - not because he’s aggressive toward other dogs, but because he’s incredibly gentle with dogs of all sizes, and is always very polite with people. We have a cat, and have trained the puppy to pretty much ignore her. At this point, she can walk up and press her nose to his, and he’ll smile at her. He was one of the smartest puppies in his basic obedience class (he starts intermediate tomorrow).
But we’re being smart. The dog and the cat are kept separate when we’re not home. Except when we’re at the dog park, our dog is always on leash when he’s not in our house or our yard. When we’re at the park, we stay with him, and stand over him when he’s tussling with other dogs (I often put my hand in his mouth with he’s wrestling, to make sure he’s not biting too hard). Someone commented earlier that pitbulls have poker faces…mine does not. When he’s annoyed, you can tell immediately, and he goes back on his leash. We go to the park at least five days a week to make sure he’s socialized, had a trainer come into our home to give us pointers when we first got him, took him to basic obedience, are about to start in
When ascertaining risk, nobody has a stake in the truth like the insurance companies as opposed to the public and the politicians with competing interests. The very nature of the industry via the settlement of claims for damages allows for an unbiased assessment of damages caused by specific dog breeds This should result in breed specific insurance policy.
However this isn’t happening in large part due to political intervention.
From Spotlight on: Dog bite liability | III
bolding mine
It was perhaps an overbroad generalization, intended to drive home the point that a “less intelligent” breed is hard to train.
I just want to make sure my understanding of dog breeds is correct here. There is absolutely no genetic test that can pinpoint the breed of a dog, right? If I said my Aussie/Lab cross was a Border Collie (because she sure does look like one), there’s no lab test that could prove me wrong.
I could do this with my Manchester Terrier, my German Shepherd, my Golden Retriever, and the aforementioned Aussie/Lab cross. All four feet off the ground and swinging. I even lifted my 130-pound timber wolf/Malamute cross off the ground that way. Absolutely nothing unique to pit bulls there.
And that’s certainly where I draw all of my citations. You wouldn’t believe some of the great info I get from guys in bars.
Sheesh! Is *not *hard to train.
Of course the dumb newbie gets her post cutoff. And I was being so eloquent!
At any rate, we’re being responsible with our pit, and know lots of pitbull owners who have likewise been attentive to training and socialization, and it’s a bummer that irresponsible owners have given the breed such a bad rap.
Speaking of Bad Rap , they have some great resources for pitbull owners.
In Detroit there is a lot of dog fighting. When the Humane Society gets one they put it down. They are all pit bulls. There must be a reason that they fight them. They are bred for it. They are very good dog fighters.
Pit bull owners are a big part of the problem. I walk my beagles in the park every day. I have been in 6 really scary situations with other dogs unleashed. Every one has been a pit bull. Once I dropped my beagle in an empty garbage can and had to jump on a picnic table kicking the pit bull face til the owner caught up.Each time the owner said he never did that before. Seems to me the owners are trying to show their control over the beast. I would prefer a leash. The no leash fine is 250 but the cops are never around.
And we heard the same things about the German Shepherd we owned in the 60s and 70s, constantly and unendingly. The breed was dangerous and always attacked/mauled people, they were unstable and our dog would turn on us at any moment, children weren’t safe as long as this breed existed, yadda yadda yadda on and on and on and on et cetera et cetera et cetera.
Please note the timeframe - the dogs were now known as German Shepherds, because the Jerries weren’t the enemy any longer now that we had those Commie Russkies.
It lasted until the late 70s, when Dobermans became popular as the new evil, vicious, insane breed. (Helped some that Shepherds got some good publicity in there somewhere as guide dogs and in movies/TV shows, so they were suddenly A-OK.) Then in the late 80s/early 90s, Dobies were OK and it was the Rottweilers that were going to kill us all any minute now.
All the same garbage you’re spouting about pit bulls.
FWIW, the main trend I’ve noticed is that whatever the Evil Scary Dog of the Moment is, it seems to be very popular with blacks (especially males) at the time. Self-selection (e.g., testerone overload requiring a bad-ass dog) or subconscious societal racism? Or maybe a little bit of both…
**amandazee **, the world needs more people like you. I really commend you and people like you for giving a dog a second chance. He’s very lucky to have found such a great home.
It is not the breed. It is the owner. Breed specific legislation is stupid. Breeds are determined by pedigree. Breeds are defined and administered by associations such as the American Kennel Club. If you do not have papers on the dog, it is not a member of the breed. Q.E.D. There is no way that anyone can determine whether a particular dog is a particular breed without examining the pedigree. Breed specific legislation is stupid.
It is not the breed, it is the owner.
On the whole I don’t believe that normal dogs “just snap”. Sudden aggression can be a product of injury or disease, such as a brain tumour, and there is some indication that dogs infected with Lyme Disease can show increased and abnormal aggression.
That being said, I think that in cases where dogs appear to “snap” there are a few likely scenarios.
The first is that of a dominant dog in a home where it has no clear and respected leadership. In a leadership vacuum a dog will either willingly, or reluctantly, take on the role of “alpha” and owners can unwittingly behave in such a way as to reinforce that behaviour. How many people do you know who tell you that their dog growls at them when they try to move it off the bed?
It’s not unlikely that sooner or later this dog will exercise the right of the pack leader to discipline a subordinate pack member, even if that pack member is a human. To someone without much knowledge of dogs, this dog might seem to have suddenly turned on them, but to anyone with a bit more dog savvy, the signs would have been clear for a long time.
Dogs which are removed from their mother and siblings too young (which is very often true of puppy mill puppies) and not conscientiously socialized and trained, often don’t learn bite inhibition. I saw the importance of bite inhibition in one of my foster dogs . He hurt himself and every time I tried to touch him to see what was wrong he swung his head at me to snap, warning me off because he was in pain. However, each time you could see the inhibition kick in and he closed his mouth and swung his head away. He was part Wolfhound, so he could have done some damage if he’d connected, but his bite inhibition was so strong that even under enormous stress he couldn’t bring himself to bite. Of course, I backed off as well, until he was comfortable enough to be handled.
Fear aggressive dogs will bite because they’re afraid. A naturally nervous and fearful temperament and poor socialization can be a recipe for disaster. Nervous dogs are easily stressed by any novelties in their environment, it doesn’t take much to scare them, and scared dogs can bite.
The other part of this is that dogs are often disciplined for growling. Growls are an early warning system, “stop doing that, I don’t like it, if you persist I might bite you”. If you don’t deal with the issue which is causing the growling, which might be a training issue or simply removing the cause of the annoyance, but punish the dog for growling, you might end up with a dog who goes straight to a bite because you’ve removed his ability to warn.
“The studies which have been conducted of the structure of the skulls, mandibles and teeth of pit bulls show that, in proportion to their size, their jaw structure, and thus its inferred functional morphology, is no different than that of any other breed of dog of comparable size and build. Further there is no evidence for the existence of any kind of ‘locking mechanism’ unique to the structure of the jaws and/or teeth of pit bulls.” Source: Dr Lehr Brisbin, Professor of Ecology, University of Georgia.
The thing which people seem to forget in all the hysteria about Pits is that they are terriers, and their nature is very much that of the terrier. Terriers are, by definition, brave, tenacious, determined, active and willing to finish what they start.
I feel for you. Not a good situation to be in. But I am glad you note that the owners are a big part of the problem – I’d go further and say they are the problem. Period.
Allow me to try to explain. I know for a fact that Dobies are not generally “dog-friendly.” Simply part of their make-up as a breed and although I am fairly sure I could have trained her out of her “other dog-dislike” I simply didn’t see the need for any number of reasons, such as there not being any other dogs in my immediate family and the fact that there are tons of aggressive mongrels around. Figured it might help ME at some point to keep her instincts that way – and it has, more than once, but that’s another story. Point being, I walk her everyday for over an hour and have gotten furious more than once when some imbecile is also walking their dog…unleashed! Something I never do regardless of how much control I feel I have over mine. More than once one of these dogs have made a beeline towards Silky…and I am talking from freakin’ toy poodles to Boxers and everything in between. When she was a puppie, I felt it was my “duty” to step in between and shoo the offender off while berating the hell out of the owner. But lo and behold, when she was about 16 months old, some mongrel from hell (damn! but that thing was UGLY) jumped at us from an alley. Before I even had time to know what was going on or even being scared, I just felt a tug that took me to my knees, and I am not a small man at 6’3” over 200 lbs…it was Silky trying to EAT the offender. The “thing” just screeched to a halt and scurried away, tail securely tucked between its legs. Mind you, I’d never let my dog get into a fight willingly – thus the permanent leash – but from that day on, any dog comes our way, I know they are going to have to go through her first. No easy task I assure you.
Moral of the story: love Beagles, but do yourself a favor and get a Dobie 
Naw, just joshing. Although it’s true I feel pretty safe with her about any sort of dog-attack, I still think owners who unleash their dogs are irresponsible assholes. And if one of those little buggers ever becomes a canapé for Silky, well, that’s one less feeding I’ll have to give her. Fuck them. But really, it is not their dog’s fault.
Contrapuntual,
Fair enough. We’re agreed.
amandazee,
You seem like a good apple. Welcome aboard. And your pup as well.
Hope you enjoy your time here.
Hm. There might be a lab test that could determine ancestry, especially of newer breeds, by doing paternity testing from a known common ancestor.