I don’t need to cite for claims I didn’t make. See emphasis added.
No, I haven’t said that or anything similar to that.
Really? I didn’t see anything like that in any of the research at all. And statements like that continue to make it clear that you have absolutely no earthly idea what you are talking about on the subject of dogs.
Not so very many people are killed each year by rattle snakes or copperheads or pit vipers of any other ilk, but when we go about in the world and we see one, we try to kill it.
Yet, some people think snakes are the ideal pet. Even people with small children who are, very seldom, but have been, squeezed to death by a constrictor type pet snake.
Even if the odds of a pit bull type animal killing someone in particular are spectacularly small, the odds of a pit bull type animal killing someone in general in any given month is quite high. the odds of a border collie, or poodle or other medium sized or small dog killing a human in any given month are very very small. We all see this and can’t deny it.
Banning pit bulls is not something that weirdo dreamers drool over. It is something that happens, even for entire countries. All it takes is for one member of that community to kill someone, the drumbeat for banning them begins. Sometimes, it is successful.
And life goes on, with people who want to own dogs finding a dog to own, one that isn’t a pit bull, one that is loving and gentle and smart, just like the pit bull they wanted to own but which was judged, by the community, to be too dangerous in the aggregate, to allow.
That said, almost all pit bull attacks resulting in fatalities could be eliminated by neutering them. Pit bull owners should handle the problem of ‘purifying the breed’, eliminating any tendency to aggression, the same way we used to handle fox hounds that wanted to chase barnyard chickens…take them over the hill with a .22 in one hand, a shovel in the other.
you will have to explain this in order for anything else to betaken seriously.
My individual chance of being killed by a pit bull in any given month are infinitesimally small. I agree that only a small small percentage of the pit bull like animals become aggressive toward humans in any given period of time. (the particular part)
But, during that same month, somewhere in the US, a person will be killed by a pit bull. (The general part)
Sort of the same business as the lottery. Someone has to win, even if my chance of winning is less than being bitten by a pit bull, I know that someone will win.
We play the lottery willingly (some folks do, at least, and by choice) because there is a potential enormous payoff.
We play the pit bull lottery unwillingly, not by choice, and realized that someone will be killed by a pit bull almost any time we check the internet, somewhere in the world.
Yes, a few times each year, some other useless breed kills someone, but the majority are by pit bull like dogs. The ‘I know one when I see one’ pit bull.
Since most of us don’t play the ‘will the pit bull attack me this month’ game willingly, it should not be a surprise to anyone that we want to eliminate this game, remove this particular hazard and worry from our lives.
Then we work on lightning, bathtubs, swimming pools, etc.
No one is saying that there aren’t hazards all around us. Some of us are saying we should do what we can to eliminate them. If we happen to have to be out in the lightning, we should remember to travel in a Faraday Cage. If our babies aren’t able to hold themselves up out of the water, never leave them alone in it. Make sure our pools are protected by child-proof fences, and alarms on doors and windows that open into the pool area; anti-suction blockage devices on the drains…seatbelts and car seats in our cars. Campaigns against drunken driving and distracted driving…building inspectors and building specifications for water, electrical, load bearing…etc.
And, neuter all the pit bulls.
Assuming this is true, it’s likely due to an irresponsible owner (see the study quoted in post 409). Yeah, lets spay & neuter our pets but where are the cries for educating the owners?
Please explain why your solutions to reducing the number of deaths involving cars, swimming pools, bathtubs, drunk and distracted driving, building safety, etc., are all centered around human responsibility and precautions as opposed to banning those hazards, yet your solution to reducing pit bull maulings is to eliminate the breed rather than call on humans to be responsible and take precautions?
As has been repeated numerous times here: More than 80 percent of pit bull maulings have involved a combination of FOUR factors that are entirely HUMAN-controlled.
Yet instead of calling for campaigns against isolating pit bulls outdoors away from regular human interaction, for never leaving a baby or any small child alone with a pit bull, for spaying and neutering your pet pit bulls just as we promote spaying and neutering for every other dog breed, for proper training and socialization of pit bulls, etc., you just want them all neutered into extinction.
Do you realize what a double standard that is?
From the cite in post #409 we learn that in the vast majority of pitbull inflicted fatalities, 63% of these dogs were properly managed by their owners.
No we don’t. From the cite in post #409 we learn that:
Taking a close analysis at the 256 fatality cases that occurred between 2000-2009, researchers focused on identifying preventable factors of the incidents:
•There was no able-bodied person present to intervene (In 87% of cases);
•The victim didn’t know the dog (In 85% of cases);
•The dogs were intact (in 84% of cases);
•The victim didn’t have the physical ability to manage the situation, due to either age or physical condition (in 77% of cases);
•The dogs were kept as resident dogs (kept on the property) instead of family pets (in 76% of cases);
•The dogs were mismanaged by the owner (in 37% of cases)
•The dogs were neglected or abused by the owner (in 21% of cases).
In 80% of cases, at least 4 of these factors were present.
Pitbulls don’t kill children, people do ?
Guns and pitbulls. We can do without either.
“•The dogs were mismanaged by the owner (in 37% of cases)”
i.e. 63 % properly managed
“•There was no able-bodied person present to intervene (In 87% of cases);”
-should a person in a wheel chair not be able to own a pitbull, or should you as an able bodied person keep your dog with you at all times
“•The victim didn’t know the dog (In 85% of cases);”
'•The dogs were kept as resident dogs (kept on the property) instead of family pets (in 76% of cases);"
Should we have bylaws requiring pitbulls be kept inside?
“•The victim didn’t have the physical ability to manage the situation, due to either age or physical condition (in 77% of cases);”
-Is that the owner’s fault ?
“•The dogs were neglected or abused by the owner (in 21% of cases).”
-falls under the 37% mismanagement.
No matter how you cut it , the cite claims in 63% of pitbull inflicted fatalities over a lengthy period that the owners properly managed their pibbies
How did the dog get into a position to bite someone who doesn’t know it? Owner didn’t ensure it couldn’t get loose?
If the victim is the owner or, again, the owner didn’t ensure the dog couldn’t get into a position where it could harm someone.
What of that 80% which is a combintion of at least four factors?
Oh, you’ve never had your dog break the leash out of your hand ?
This 80% reflect many factors that have nothing to do with owner management
I would hope so. In fact I’m trying to picture a pitbull that wasn’t intact. As of this posting it just occurred to me that they are referring to neutering. If so, this would be a powerfull argument to neutering ALL pitbulls. I’m on board with that.
You presume that encompasses all types of “mismanagement” when it clearly does not, since several kinds of “mismanagement” are broken out separately in this same list. In fact, the original poster of that bullet-pointed list paraphrased the study results, which included the word “prior” in this factor (which is why it’s a good idea to read LINKS when they’re provided), so here they are as written:
You are also ignoring the fact that the study showed that in more than 80 percent of the cases, FOUR OR MORE of those factors occurred simultaneously. So even if 63 percent of the dogs had not been previously mismanaged, they had been some combination of isolated, unneutered, abused, neglected, left where there was no appropriate person able to intervene, etc.
I’m struggling to figure out why this is so difficult for so many here to grasp.
I would not recommend a pit bull to a wheelchair-bound person, no. Just as I would not recommend a Dalmatian to a wheelchair-bound person. They are not appropriate dogs for everyone. Neither are Yorkshire Terriers — those little fuckers are extremely difficult to house break, so if you don’t want to have to deal with a dog’s lifetime of piddle pads in your kitchen, that’s not the dog for you.
Again, not a tough concept.
In many cases, yes.
No more than we need bylaws requiring any other dog breed to be kept inside. However, knowing whether or not the breed you’re acquiring is an appropriate dog for outdoor kenneling is rather important if outdoor kenneling is the only way you can keep a dog on your property. Pit Bulls are not appropriate dogs for outdoor kenneling, and they’re not appropriate for keeping isolated from human interaction.
The reason we took our pit bulls from our neighbors is that when they had a baby they stuck the dogs (ages 4 and 8 at the time) in their primarily cement (and very, very small) backyard and left them there with barely the most minimal human interaction for more than a year. Duke in particular is an extremely affectionate people-lover and craved being with his owners so badly that he started chewing the window frames, knocking in the screens, and breaking into the house. Lola was so bored and stir crazy from the isolation that she started shredding everything in sight: plastic dog bowls, rope toys, bedding, etc. They hadn’t been taken on a walk in over a year. They hadn’t been played with or petted. Some weeks they went without food for days because the irresponsible owners hadn’t bothered to check back there to see that the giant bag of dog food they’d left open at the top for them to graze from was empty. The piles of petrified and recent shit filled three large lawn and garden bags (my husband and I spent a solid weekend cleaning that yard in the hopes that they would keep it up once we got them over the hurdle - they didn’t).
When their landlord came over one day and saw the condition of his property from the dogs destroying it, he said they’d have to go. They put the word out to their friends that if someone didn’t take them, they’d have to be turned over to a rescue group or the pound, so we took them. When we first got them to our house, Duke’s separation anxiety was so severe that if I left his sight he’d scream and cry and go nuts trying to get to me, so I couldn’t walk Lola and leave him at home — they had to be walked together.
But they’re large, muscular dogs and I was having a very hard time walking both of them by myself. Lola was a heeler, but Duke was a puller. So in the beginning I recruited friends to help me when my husband wasn’t available. I started researching dog training for getting Duke to heel and behave better on a leash and learned about the Gentle Leader head and face harness. I found someone who had her dog on one and asked her about it and she said it saved her dog’s life and recommended it very highly. So I bought two of them and the first time I put it on Dukie, within 30 seconds he was like walking an entirely different dog … exactly as the woman I spoke with said happened with hers. The harness acts much like the bridle of a horse, guiding the dog by the head and face. And because the animal’s strength is in their shoulders and not their head, they cannot pull on me with this harness like they could with their shoulder harnesses. I literally have complete control over these dogs on these leads, and now I can not only walk both dogs together by myself, but we can walk by other dogs and they won’t even try to run toward them to try to smell their butts like they used to try to do, which naturally scared the crap out of littler dogs and was just an overall nightmare as you can imagine.
And my house and all our cushions are completely intact. There’s not a single bite mark in any window or door frame, and after the first night when one outdoor pillow got shredded, there’s not a single shredded anything in our house. In fact, Lola and Duke have both indoor and outdoor dog beds and pillows they lay their heads on to sleep.
Their previous owner is gobsmacked that Lola can have stuffed anything and not rip it to shreds, since othing with stuffing lasted more than 24 hours in their home. I’m not surprised. I know that she did that because she was not given appropriate attention, and left to her own boredom, found whatever she could to entertain herself. She doesn’t have that problem here so she doesn’t exhibit the same bad behaviors here. Same with Duke. All of their behavior problems with their previous owners are gone now that they’re with us and being cared for properly.
Yes.
No it doesn’t.
No it doesn’t. The cite claims 37 percent of pit bulls that were involved in fatal dog attacks had been previously mismanaged. But even of the 67 percent that had not been previously mismanaged, they had at least four of the other factors in play at the time of the attack.
Honestly, after this many years at the Straight Dope, I’d think reading comprehension would be better than what you’ve displayed here.
No, I have not. And I’ve taken a Husky/Smoyan/GSD mix for walks when I was a teen. That dog could knock me over if she wanted to.
Any owner who allows their dog to break free has an improperly trained dog and/or is an improperly prepared owner.
I would surmise that the ‘four human controlled conditions exist!!!’ refrain that Shayna loves to repeat is also the case for millions of other owners and millions of other dogs across the country, every day.
And yet we don’t hear about goldens / labs / great danes etc killing dozens of kids each year. Gee, wonder why that is.
So, I repeat: Either pit bull owners are shitty owners, and/or they have shitty dogs. Either way, my family will be giving shitty owner you and your shitty little dog a wide berth.
Near here a man was just when mauled by his two dogs. One was a boxer and one a cocker spaniel.
I really don’t. yes, when humans do something wrong, they might be educated to avoid that flaw in their actions…but for something bad to happen takes the added element of there being a pit bull type dog there… It isn’t the same as when a person has a gun and decides whether or not to fire it…the pit bull decides whether or not to attack, and the human master, if one is around, may not be able to stop it.
Frequently, though, dog attacks are from free-ranging strays, or, even, dogs allowed to ‘roam’ at night. Millions of dollars worth of livestock has been killed by stray pack dogs. Clearly, the human regulatory element is not present in those attacks. You can say to a former owner (no, you generally couldn’t since you don’t know who they are)…if you would just find and retrieve your animal, the pack of dogs about to attack and kill a jogger won’t do it…
The way to keep packs of dogs from doing mischief, or worse, is to not allow them to exist in the first place.
okay, I will allow you to dispose of cocker spaniels and boxers, too. I bet the boxer did the most damage and that if the bites had been by a pit bull type dog, the man would have been killed.
Please tell me how frequently you find owners of goldens, labs, great danes, etc., isolating their dogs in cages in their yards, not treating them as house pets, and neglecting or abusing them … all at the same time.
Pit Bulls are treated that way all the time. How do you not see that those conditions contribute heavily in the statistics of fatal Pit Bull maulings?
Then you repeat stupidity.
Many Pit Bull owners are good dog owners, but a significant number of them are either not good dog owners or are unprepared or ill-equipped to handle this breed of dog, yet keep one anyway when they shouldn’t.
Jesus the stupidity here is really fucking annoying. While some dog owners are unable to stop their dogs from attacking someone (including the owners of the rat/carin/whatever mutt terrier that ripped my mouth open; or my family when our dachshund, which I was sitting right fucking next to, jumped up and ripped my friend’s nose open), some gun owners are not able to stop their spouses from unlocking the gun case and blowing their fucking brains out all over the freshly cleaned living room carpet.
The object is to do everything within our control to mitigate the opportunity for tragic events to occur. When pit bull owners do that, they’re closer to 100 percent certain not to have their dog kill someone or be killed by it. Because we now know that in more than 80 percent of fatal Pit Bull maulings, more than four things went wrong at the same time the mauling occurred. So obviously when three or fewer of those elements exist, the likelihood of a fatal attack diminishes, approaching zero as you eliminate all of those conditions entirely.
What pack dogs on the loose have to do with Pit Bulls is a mystery to me, but it seems you’re suggesting we just eliminate all dogs because … pack dogs. Or something. 
No reports of the cocker participating in the attack on the two people; they were trying to break up a fight between the two dogs when it happened, and it’s a fair bet the boxer was kicking the cocker’s ass.