Well said.
I’ve heard the pithy expression, “When you’re more upset about the messenger than you are about the message, you’re part of the problem.”
No, and many of us Americans are confused about that as well.
He was also trying to convey it to entirely the wrong people.
When you are doing your damnedest to build a sand levy and bail water, a “messenger” getting in your face and blaming you for the damage the flood is doing is going to do little but upset you.
Uhm…I’m afraid not. I think he means all Americans. No offense, but we don’t get how this keeps happening, and you’re somehow powerless to stop it. I don’t mean that in any way condescending .
Then that’s pretty stupid, as not all Americans support having guns freely available.
I am as powerful as my vote, no more. Reference January 6th for when people don’t want to play democracy anymore.
Should we take up arms against our government in order to get gun control measures passed?
It’s pretty fucking condescending, and remarkably ignorant to boot.
I mean the general use of that saying.
For example: people mercilessly attacked Colin Kaepernick rather than address the underlying point he was trying to make.
Same with Occupy Wall Street, Black Lives Matter, and on and on.
This stuff would be modded on most of the SD forums, where we’re supposed to attack the content, not its creator.
I don’t take @The_Librarian 's comment personally, because I’m acutely aware that a huge chunk of us are advocating for some sort of meaningful change to what can only be described as unabashed collective insanity.
And the object of this pit thread came off the rails, IMHO, when he not only took @Drsunflower1 's comment personally, but allowed it to overwhelm the sorrow he professed to feel at yet another senseless mass gun killing.
Yes: a messenger can be an impediment and can act against the overriding interests of their cause.
But attacking them personally is a party foul.
Yes, but this is more like attacking Colin Kaepernick for not solving racism.
I’m sorry if that’s how I came across. I’ve read quite a lot about school shooters, and shootings, from the psychological point of view. I get the impression it’s a cultural problem, as well as a lot of other things. But I seriously don’t get why I can’t ask the question.
Well, fuck you for not solving global warming, and acting powerless to stop it, then.
Ah. I see what you mean.
I’ll chalk it up to a European’s inability – very much akin to mine – to understand how we seem to tacitly accept this time after time after time.
Even as I know that so many of us oppose it with all our breath.
@Drsunflower1 : because I know a very little about you … I hope you’ll forgive me a tasteless analogy: not every German supported Hitler. But neither could they seem to neutralize him.
I didn’t want to be the one to pull the Godwin , but that’s what I was afraid of. And right now I’m really sad. It is happening again. I’m so very sorry. And I sincerely mean that.
Talk about ignorance, @DavidNRockies did not pull a Godwin.
And get back to me when you get that global warming thing solved.
If they weren’t actively resisting him, then they might as well have.
That’s really what I took from your comments.
I’m far from Uvalde, Texas, but I am heartsick for their loss. I understand how this looks to the rest of the world. I can neither excuse it, explain it, nor defend it.
Not to you. Not to others. Not to myself.
I can only stand side-by-side with those who are hurting so deeply to see it happen yet again.
What is your suggestion then? Are you saying that in order to solve the gun problem, we need to get guns and overthrow the government? Or just kill the gun owners?
Honestly, this is as ridiculous as blaming the Iraqi Kurds for the actions of Hussein.
And do the one thing within my power without resorting to violence, to vote and try to convince others to vote for people who will pass laws that will reduce gun violence.
I’m not sure how we are supposed to “actively” resist the gun laws in the country without resorting to violence ourselves.
I don’t get it either, honestly, and I’ve lived with it all my life. Mostly, AFAICT, it’s a combination of four things:
- Disproportionate political influence of rural areas, which tend to skew conservative.
- Profound political and cultural legacy of slavery and racism, which has left a lot of residual fear and distrust among conservative white (“post-Confederate”) Americans. Demographic trends towards future “majority-minority” racial composition are making a lot of those folks nervous too.
- Serious political irresponsibility and corruption, primarily although by no means exclusively among Republicans, which has limited political transparency and allowed major donors to call the shots on policy for their own benefit.
- A post-seventies wave of right-wing rage about being systematically wrong about nearly everything, to the point that many of them are willing to reject democracy, reason and facts for no better reason that than it “triggers the libs”. Factors (1), (2) and (3) all exacerbate this part, of course.
Clearly I’ve pissed you off. That’s too bad, because I like reading your posts. Apparently I’ve stepped on a nerve. Like I said, I didn’t mean to offend anyone. I try to read up on stuff , and this truly seems like a really complicated issue. Perhaps my own remarks are also out of fear. We’re used to looking up to the US, and the way things seem to be heading are frightening.
You’re one of the first Dopers to whom I paid a sincere compliment.
I stand by it.
But some of these people aren’t your/our enemies in this issue. I see them as sharing our pain. It isn’t easy to wag a civil tongue when the ballistic shit – again – hit the innocent juvenile fan(s).
I’m giving people who seem gutted by this tragedy and its innumerable progenitor events a fair bit of slack. I’m doing what I can to wisely judge friend vs. foe.
I don’t see a lot of point in turning on each other.
Meaning: peace.