Pitbull Dogs

[Justin_Bailey]

@Sailboat

Are you sure you’re not mis-estimating sizes? Our full-blooded pit bull is 34 pounds – that put her precisely in the median weight range for an American Pit Bull Terrier female (25-50 pounds as quoted in the breed standard previously).

Wow. I never stopped to realize just how massive my pit bull/boxer/shepherd mix is at 68 pounds.

[TabJ]

For many years I bred dogs (not pits, though), and currently have a mix of 5 of different breeds.

I know one pit bull that is an absolutely sweetheart. I was dubious when I heard of her (belongs to a relative that my child visits), but she’s totally harmless. That said, I suspect there are many pits that aren’t.

For example - I used to own both a German Shepherd and a Chow Chow. Both have reputations for protectiveness and being dangerous.

The Chow was incredibly socialized. At most, he’d lick an intruder.

The Shepherd, despite our best efforts (we thought) simply never got socialized. He was very aggressive, protective (a baby to us, but dangerous to others outside the family). We finally put him down after an attack on a stranger, made without warning. It had been leading up to that point.

My uncle had both a Rhodesian Ridgeback and a Rottweiller - both known to be aggressive and/or dangerous guard dogs. The Rhodesian was like the Chow - wouldn’t hurt a flea - might wag or lick you to death, though. The Rottweiller was friendly enough in the daytime when my uncle was in the room, but not a dog you’d want to meet in the middle of the night.

I’ve seen Pit Bulls that are obviously aggressive, and their owners do nothing to change that; in fact, I’d argue they encourage that behaviour. A guard dog for them, sure, but a danger to others, and the owner bears full responsibility if they have encouraged that behaviour and then puts them in unmonitored situations with ANYONE, much less children or others not familiar with handling dogs.

So, are they inherently dangerous? Let’s just say that they are more pre-disposed to get there than, say, a Golden Retriever or a Shih-Tzu. They won’t all be a danger, but the potential is there if not properly socialized.

[Lucien]

@germanshepardowner

This is really my point, but this poster states it much better than I did. Aside from every other statistic and measurement made, again, I ask the question: which breed of dog would you least want to face in an attack? That’s my definition of “most dangerous breed.”

And my simple answer is this: fighting dogs are pitbulls. They are the most tenacious, aggresive, and pain-proof dogs out there. It’s almost like a guard-dog breed is attacking for training reasons, doing a job. Pit bulls attack because of rage. (that’s a symbolically comparative association, not a statement of fact - obviously I am not a pit-bull dog, so I do not know the level of “rage” involved)

If someone can show that some other breed of dog (of any size) is better at fights to the death than a pit-bull, then maybe you can talk about that dog being the most dangerous. Otherwise, that’s the proof I need.

The Pit bulls popularity has made it a favorite target of the media. Yes, they do have the highest number of fatalities attributed to them but not the top number of actual bites when it comes to humans, another 2 popular but often ignored breeds have taken that space more years than not. Golden Retrievers and Labrador type dogs… not to mention collies which also have high bite numbers. Why? The general public’s lack of ability to properly train, contain and monitor their animals, same as with pit bulls. The average citizen knows very little about dog behavior and underlying symptoms of neurosis in dogs that are under challenged, mostly housebound and improperly understood by their owners, who, for the most part, have usually made an impulse buy of a puppy or adopted an animal on impulse rather than researching breeds, behavior and learning to cope with their choice of dog by directing the energies of their animals to viable alternatives rather than aggression and other neurotic behaviors that affect dogs that are always closed up or chained up with minimal socialization.

Dogs are Pack animals. They need a social hierarchy that is reinforced on a daily basis through the redirection of their basic instinctive drives, which, for the most part, people are at fault for in the first place by selective breeding for specific traits. The dog itself is not to blame for its behavior anymore than a child under the age of 7 (and thus the “Reasonable Man” Mandate) is responsible for copying the criminal actions of an older adult. (Represented many times by said children picking up guns they’ve seen their parent’s handle or the careless handling of said weapons on television by those the child may look up to and see as a role model) In the child’s case, the parent is both liable and at fault just as the owner of a dog is liable and at fault for the animal’s actions.

We have engineered dogs to be aggressive, protective, intimidating, hard workers, tenacious, and owner pleasing (Not people pleasing. A dog has no need or desire to please those outside of its pack since there is no feedback/reward in such an action) In short, people are at fault for the behavior of animals under their ownership and thus their control.

I’m the owner of a GSD/Siberian Husky mix dog who has definite aggressive tendencies which have been a result of abuse in the first 3 years of her life with another owner. She is aggressive and she WOULD bite if ALLOWED the chance to. The intervening factor however, is that she is not given that opportunity. She is trained and under my control at all times. I also have a 1/3 Wolf/Belgian Shepherd cross who, again, would bite if allowed, and again it is because people brought an animal home without knowing what to expect or how to handle what they’d get. Neither of my dogs have EVER bitten anyone nor has any dog I’ve
owned in the past which include 2 Pit Bull/Staff crosses, 1 Presa Canarios, and 1 Ovcharka or Caucasian Mountain Dog, which has been billed as one of the most agressive dogs in the world. My family has raised a few Korean Jindo’s as well
and they have pretty much nothing but dog fighting lineages in their background.

The rising number of dog bites are the fault of irresponsible ownership and lack of common sense dog skills or even common sense approaches to owning a dog. Never before in history have dogs been so pampered as now and never in history has the number of bites by dogs of any breed been so high. Dogs are companions and workers with an almost singular drive to please, but when that drive is subverted you get the typical behaviors of today’s often neurotic animals, separation anxiety and increased aggression being 2 of the worst and most common problems.

Lucien

“Creativity is the sudden cessation of stupidity”

[Mellissande]

@BMax

@Crazyhorse

There is a key difference in the way pit bulls bite; they continue to hold on with very powerful jaws and then twist their bodies in a spiral, rip and tear with all their might, trying to remove whatever body part they happen to be chomping on. Other dogs including shepherds and rottweilers either nip and release or bite and hold on but they do not generally twist their heads and entire bodies like alligators trying to tear body parts off a caribou. So whether or not pit bulls are naturally more aggressive than any other breed, all influencing factors like environment and training aside, they are absolutely more likely to cause injuries sufficient to make it to statistics collectors when they do attack.

So, you’re saying that a pit bull is like an alligator tearing up a caribou?
My pit bull is more like a 70-lb dog licking a child’s face. At least, that’s what he’s been like the ten years I’ve had him in my house.
I’ve seen dog fight videos, and it is really disturbing. Those dogs do tear each other up badly, but I’ve never seen one death roll like an alligator, much less a gator on a caribou. Since alligators live in Florida swamps and carribou live on the Canadian tundra, I’m going to assume that you are correct, and a pit bull death rolling someone is as likely as an alligator attack on a carribou.

This post Bmax is very accurate. Personally I am tired of people letting their kids love on and play with my dog and letting him get into their laps and lick them till their faces are raw then as soon as they find out that he’s an APBT they freak out and won’t come near him anymore.

The breed specific racism is just as bad as people who think every black man is a gangbanger, or every mexican, is lazy or every Irishman is a lush, or every native american is promiscuous, or every white man beats his wife. We ALL know these generalizations are ridiculous and shouldn’t even be given a moment’s consideration. At one point in time Bloodhounds were the most feared dog in America. at one point Chows, then German Shepards, then Doberman pinschers, then Rottweilers, now Pit Bulls. At some point in time these breeds were all used for pit fighting. And Irresponsible breeders and owners are the cause of Human aggression in almost every Human aggressive dog.

I know that I am biased, But On a large scale temperament test, APBTs and Amstaffs scored better than Golden Retrievers. http://www.atts.org/stats1.html

I know it has been said many times, But one cannot stress enough the importance of the fact that breed reporting in dog bite instances is sketchy at best. there are 25 different breeds very commonly mistaken for pit bulls and less commonly breeds such as Labrador Retrievers and Dalmations have been mistaken for Pit bulls and put to sleep because of that mistaken distinction.

http://www.mabbr.org/legislation4.html

and just for a well researched source if you’d like:
http://www.fataldogattacks.com/
I know that this is an old thread, But this is a very important issue affection millions of dog owners around the world. These same people who yell “pit bull” whenever they see a big dog of any breed are the ones voting on Breed Specific legislation and getting hundreds of thousands of family pets put to sleep simply because their owners cannot afford to move out of the cities which are banning their family members. And if you look back at the different breeds that have been hated, you will realize that Pits are just the dog du jour. Next year it could be your breed of choice being Banned.

[gonzomax]

@Lucien

@germanshepardowner

This is really my point, but this poster states it much better than I did. Aside from every other statistic and measurement made, again, I ask the question: which breed of dog would you least want to face in an attack? That’s my definition of “most dangerous breed.”

And my simple answer is this: fighting dogs are pitbulls. They are the most tenacious, aggresive, and pain-proof dogs out there. It’s almost like a guard-dog breed is attacking for training reasons, doing a job. Pit bulls attack because of rage. (that’s a symbolically comparative association, not a statement of fact - obviously I am not a pit-bull dog, so I do not know the level of “rage” involved)

If someone can show that some other breed of dog (of any size) is better at fights to the death than a pit-bull, then maybe you can talk about that dog being the most dangerous. Otherwise, that’s the proof I need.

The Pit bulls popularity has made it a favorite target of the media. Yes, they do have the highest number of fatalities attributed to them but not the top number of actual bites when it comes to humans, another 2 popular but often ignored breeds have taken that space more years than not. Golden Retrievers and Labrador type dogs… not to mention collies which also have high bite numbers. Why? The general public’s lack of ability to properly train, contain and monitor their animals, same as with pit bulls. The average citizen knows very little about dog behavior and underlying symptoms of neurosis in dogs that are under challenged, mostly housebound and improperly understood by their owners, who, for the most part, have usually made an impulse buy of a puppy or adopted an animal on impulse rather than researching breeds, behavior and learning to cope with their choice of dog by directing the energies of their animals to viable alternatives rather than aggression and other neurotic behaviors that affect dogs that are always closed up or chained up with minimal socialization.

Dogs are Pack animals. They need a social hierarchy that is reinforced on a daily basis through the redirection of their basic instinctive drives, which, for the most part, people are at fault for in the first place by selective breeding for specific traits. The dog itself is not to blame for its behavior anymore than a child under the age of 7 (and thus the “Reasonable Man” Mandate) is responsible for copying the criminal actions of an older adult. (Represented many times by said children picking up guns they’ve seen their parent’s handle or the careless handling of said weapons on television by those the child may look up to and see as a role model) In the child’s case, the parent is both liable and at fault just as the owner of a dog is liable and at fault for the animal’s actions.

We have engineered dogs to be aggressive, protective, intimidating, hard workers, tenacious, and owner pleasing (Not people pleasing. A dog has no need or desire to please those outside of its pack since there is no feedback/reward in such an action) In short, people are at fault for the behavior of animals under their ownership and thus their control.

I’m the owner of a GSD/Siberian Husky mix dog who has definite aggressive tendencies which have been a result of abuse in the first 3 years of her life with another owner. She is aggressive and she WOULD bite if ALLOWED the chance to. The intervening factor however, is that she is not given that opportunity. She is trained and under my control at all times. I also have a 1/3 Wolf/Belgian Shepherd cross who, again, would bite if allowed, and again it is because people brought an animal home without knowing what to expect or how to handle what they’d get. Neither of my dogs have EVER bitten anyone nor has any dog I’ve
owned in the past which include 2 Pit Bull/Staff crosses, 1 Presa Canarios, and 1 Ovcharka or Caucasian Mountain Dog, which has been billed as one of the most agressive dogs in the world. My family has raised a few Korean Jindo’s as well
and they have pretty much nothing but dog fighting lineages in their background.

The rising number of dog bites are the fault of irresponsible ownership and lack of common sense dog skills or even common sense approaches to owning a dog. Never before in history have dogs been so pampered as now and never in history has the number of bites by dogs of any breed been so high. Dogs are companions and workers with an almost singular drive to please, but when that drive is subverted you get the typical behaviors of today’s often neurotic animals, separation anxiety and increased aggression being 2 of the worst and most common problems.

Lucien

“Creativity is the sudden cessation of stupidity”

Dog Breeds - Browse nearly 350 different breeds - Next Day Pets Bad argument. They are not a very popular breed. If that were a factor in criticism, then labs would be constantly panned. I don’t particularly care for labs, but it has nothing to do with the idea that there are a lot of them. I just like beagles.

[C_K_Dexter_Haven]

Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Boards, Mellissande, we’re glad to have you with us. You do comment that you know it’s an old thread, and I just want to be sure everyone is aware that there is OVER A YEAR between your post and the prior post.

We’re OK with this, so long as everyone understands not to expect responses from some of the earlier posters – many of them have left us, or no longer care about this thread, or whatever. CrazyHorse, for instance, hasn’t posted in over a year. The problem with resurrecting old threads is that there’s no longer a current discussion, you’re actually starting a new discussion. So long as everyone is comfy with that, we’ll let it roll. But for future ref, it would be better to start a whole new thread rather than revive one so long dead (“Zombie” thread, we call it).

[Mellissande]

@C_K_Dexter_Haven

Welcome to the Straight Dope Message Boards, Mellissande, we’re glad to have you with us. You do comment that you know it’s an old thread, and I just want to be sure everyone is aware that there is OVER A YEAR between your post and the prior post.

We’re OK with this, so long as everyone understands not to expect responses from some of the earlier posters – many of them have left us, or no longer care about this thread, or whatever. CrazyHorse, for instance, hasn’t posted in over a year. The problem with resurrecting old threads is that there’s no longer a current discussion, you’re actually starting a new discussion. So long as everyone is comfy with that, we’ll let it roll. But for future ref, it would be better to start a whole new thread rather than revive one so long dead (“Zombie” thread, we call it).

Thank you, I actually didn’t realize exactly how old this thread was when I posted. I know that Pit bulls are a hot button topic and as such I didn’t want to make a new topic if there were already an abundance of them and in effect make a nuisance of myself.