Weiner dog fatalities? Anybody have a statistic?
A law was passed fairly recently here in Baltimore which says that if a renter’s pit bull attacks anyone, the owner of the property is legally liable. So when we went to find a puppy at the local animal shelters, we were surrounded by a sea of orphaned pit bulls.
Right now, we’re home owners- but given the way my career works, it’s very likely that we’ll have to rent again someday, so we were pretty nervous about getting a pit bull. We’ve had several dogs, though, and we’re very insistent that any dog we own is trained to be polite and friendly, so when we saw a cute little pit bull puppy named Roxy, we decided to take the chance.
We’re so glad we did. She’s the sweetest, most playful puppy we’ve ever had. She’s got a ton of energy, but her favorite thing in the world is having a lap to sleep in. She’s about six months old now, but our friends think she’s better behaved than our friends’ older puppies.
I don’t believe there are any “bad dogs”- there are just “bad owners”. Any dog can be trained to be vicious or friendly- it just depends on how they’re trained.
Several things about those statistics, all alluded to in my previous post.
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“Pit bull” is a fuzzy label, currently applied both to one of several specific breeds and more commonly to any mixed breed mongrel of a strong medium to large build with a large head. That’s a large n of dogs.
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Dogs of that build (the broad grouping) are bred by certain people for aggressive characteristics and raised in ways that encourage it.
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Dogs of that build are often the dogs of choice to be owned by people who are ill-equipped to own any dog, let alone any strong one.
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Figure it out from there. Strong dogs (often labelled as “pits” whatever their background) bred poorly, raised poorly, and owned by owners who are not good choices for those animals (tied up, unsupervised with children, etc.), will be way over-represented in the serious bite group.
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60 to 70% of a very very tiny number is still a very very tiny number. Dog bites are common, 4.5 million a year. Ones bad enough to require medical attention still up at 885,000. Fatalities? From 2 to a few dozen a year. From cars? Over 43K. Choking? Over 5K.
If the end result it kills another dog, what does it matter if it was defensive or not. It certainly wouldn’t in the eyes of animal control of your municipal government . I think what happens for some pit bulls they aren’t able to follow the pecking order of normal pack behaviour. It’s alpha all the time, when two alphas are in a pack and one won’t back down and you have a breed that’s all muscle that has a head and jaws built like a fire hydrant who’s special ability is to ignore pain, disembowel dogs maybe the end result.
I love all dogs, even pit bulls. But they wouldn’t be my first choice as a breed.
[QUOTE=Ibanez;17089110I think what happens for some pit bulls they aren’t able to follow the pecking order of normal pack behaviour.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this statement. And it applies to other breeds, as well. My point is that I think some owners put the wrong dogs together, or don’t train, rear, and supervise properly. If my pit bull hurts one of my dogs, or a person, it will be because of something that I did or did not do. He’s sweet and submissive, but he is an animal.
My neighbor has a pit bull that spent the first year of her life tied to a trampoline leg, and has never been inside a house. They evacuated for a hurricane and left her in the yard. She has absolutely zero social skills, and that’s not her fault or her breed’s fault. It’s the ‘pit bulls are cool accessories’ neighbor’s fault.
1- I assume for a fatality from dog bite both a medical doctor and a veterinarian must make legal statements. are you trying to tell me a vet can’t tell a pit bull?
2- 60 to 70 is a very high percentage. So high in fact I would think it is a made up statistic. Except for these are deaths and that has to be legally reported.
3- You are correct that the wrong type of people get pit bulls. But even with decent owners they are still dangerous and naturally aggressive when provoked. Often they perceive danger when there is none, in the case of death I mean.
If this really occurred, the dog would never had been given a chance to “calm down”. It is standard protocol to put down any dog that has attacked a human.
I agree with this completely. I have never been really on one side or another on the pit bull debate but my girlfriend owns a pit bull and my experiences with this dog have firmly put me in the category of “it depends on the individual” and “it depends on the owner”. This dog my girlfriend has is the SWEETEST, funniest, least-aggressive dog,* of any breed*, I have ever seen. It is absolutely adorable.
The funniest part is that my girlfriend also has a second dog; a Chihuahua/Lhasa-Aspo mix (she weighs about 8 lbs.) that absolutely terrorizes (sometimes quite viciously) the poor pit bull. They play and roll around on the floor all day; with the little devil dog trying to bite the pit’s ears, etc. and the pitbull just picking up the entire dog in it’s jaws (so gently tho) and flinging her across the carpet. This small dog is strangely aggressive and fearless. And she has given this pit bull myriad reason to “get rid of the pest” but they just love each other. Such an odd couple. If I can find it, I’ll post of pic of the two of them sleeping together. 
Oooooh, snap! 
He tooold you!
Your assumption is wrong.
so you’re saying a veterinarian is not involved in reporting a death by dog bite? you know this for sure?
Well the American Veterinary Medical Association finds the data gathering methods to be questionable so your assumption that ‘for a fatality from dog bite both a medical doctor and a veterinarian must make legal statements.’ is wrong.
In any case their is two very extensive threads you can read over if you want to educate yourself on pitbulls and the arguments for and against.
you know, i just don’t believe that a veterinarian can’t identify a pittbull, a golden retriver, an irish setter, a jack russel. that is really quite an absurd assertion, even for the AVMA to make. or is it just pitbulls they have trouble identifying?
Did you bother to read the link? The vets aren’t the ones at issue.
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I, and the links you did not read, are indeed telling you that vets are not involved in those stats. Why would you think they would be?
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It is however often true that even the best qualified experts cannot tell what lineages are in a mixed breed mongrel. That’s the opinion of the experts.
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But great approach to dealing information man. If the expert body says say do not believe that they have the ability to do X, well it conflicts with what I think so they are absurd.
This sort of “argument” was why I gave up in those never-dying threads.
A while back, my SIL found a pit bull that had clearly been used in fighting laying in her front yard. She took him to a vet to get patched up and fixed. When he came home the kids called him Rufus and wanted him to stay, so with some obvious reservations they built a dog house in the backyard. During a visit, I got to meet Rufus and was amazed at how gentle he was for such a strong dog. When he wanted affection, he would swing that massive head to get you to rub it.
He died a few years later, due perhaps to effects of his fighting days, but he was the kindest most lovable dog I have seen. Put me in the “owners determine the temperament” category.
About the same number of deaths each year are reported from televisions falling on people than from dog bites.
Are televisions, or at least the old tube style sets, inherently dangerous? If you knew that someone had one in their house would you be anxious about visiting that person?
By the way, in fairness there is more to the dog bite fatality stats … they are no doubt a bit of an underestimate. There is no central registry that collects these numbers. The numbers (and the breeds alleged to have been involved) are generally culled after the fact from media reports. It is doubtful that every fatality makes the news. One researcher estimated that a true number may be three or four times as large. That is, of course, still a very tiny number in a national context, representing an extremely small risk. It also suggests that perhaps there is a selection bias as to what makes one fatality case “newsworthy” over another. “Pit Bull attack!” is a bit more of a eye catcher than “Newfoundland attack!”
And in case you think that the numbers are significant then also factor in these cases where Pit Bulls apparently saved lives as well.
They are powerful dogs. The mixed breed mongrels labelled as Pits may be the result of negligent breeding and poorly socialized as pups. They may have been abused in their lives before rescue. No matter how sweet they are those potential past history items to me equals some, small but non-zero, risk. An appropriate household for the dog with a loving owner who always supervises closely when the dog is with kids or other dogs - a wonderful thing. The right dog for every family? No. But then no dog is. (Even my favorite, rescued greyhounds.)
What makes me leery of pit bulls is that an ex-bf had a female pit that was accidentally bred with his male beagle. She had 8 pups and he was slowly finding homes for them. He was down to 4 pups when they were three months old.
One day he came home to find a note on his door from Animal Control explaining his missing puppy. He had left them out in the yard, his neighbor heard a commotion and came over to find three pups had ganged up on the fourth almost killing her. He managed to get the pup out and Animal Control took her to put her down.
Three month old puppies should not be trying to kill a litter mate.
Sadly predictable I’m afraid, another child has been mauledby a pit-bull type dog.
I’m past caring regarding any nature vs nurture debate. If you must have a dog then at least get one that isn’t going to kill people when it goes loopy.
If you want to make a proper comparison you’ll have to consider the number of households in the States that contain either heavy televisions or furniture (which is pretty much 100%), the number of those TV’s or furniture in the house (because it is the opportunity for tragedy that you are interested in here) and how many contain a dog (36.5%) Then of that number how many are pit bulls? You quickly see that the two types of incident aren’t comparable.
And anyway, when I sit in my chair and don’t go near the TV or wardrobe it is unlikely to leap across the room and rip my face off.
The danger a TV poses to me is completely in my control. The same cannot be said of a dog, I’m expected to modify my behaviour because of their unpredictability. Not their fault of course, they are an animal and can’t be expected to remain completely in control of their actions.
The owner is the one who makes the choice to buy a potentially deadly animal and I’d have no problem with either limiting their choices to do so or ensuring they are legally obliged to take extensive precautions.
Actually the heavy televisions number is fairly small by now, certainly not 100%. Flat screens have replaced a large percent of them. So not as far off as you may think. And your ability to control the actions of others in your household? Pretty small. The point in any case remains … the number is tiny.
Estimate of dogs, including mixed breeds, that would get called “pits”? Looking at shelters I’d guess a pretty big number. There are over 83 million dogsowned in this country. WAG 10% would be called “Pits” if involved in a bite incident. Risk per dog … infintessimal. Three time as many cars owned, 246 million but 34K deaths, or about 1000 times more of a risk. And no not all under your control what happens on the road. 25K deaths each year from falls in the house, often off of chairs changing bulbs or even ladders. Perhaps extensive precautions should be legally obligated in order to be able to own a chair?
Dog bite fatalities make news precisely because they are so rare. Just like you hear about airplane crashes precisely because airplane crashes are uncommon but dramatic. Pit bull like dogs involved in those rare incidents will be reported more often than other dogs because that is news that people will read.
Given the numbers of pit like dogs bred by scum, raised by scum, abused and otherwise maltreated, tied up, ignored … the fact that the numbers are in the low dozens is frankly amazing.
Here’s another dog attack, reported on the same day- but this one’s an Akita.
Here’s another- this one is “of an unknown breed”.
Here’s another- a week earlier, and involving German Shepherds.
And another from around that same time- this time, it’s an Australian Shepherd.
Would you say these attacks were also “predictable”?