Interesting. I feel like I’ve heard people say things like that before…
Sadly, we usually hear these quotes right after the funeral.
I say the same things about my Labrador Retreiver. Does that mean I need to put her down now?
Take your logical fallacies elsewhere.
Well since automotives is something that cougar is likely to understand …
The car analogy goes beyond why everyone in the market for a small SUV does not choose a Subaru Forester and some choose the BMW X1 (even though the Subaru has the best safety rating) …
Imagine two models of cars. One, car A, is responsible for significantly more crash fatalities than the other one, car B. Is it a reasonable conclusion that car A is a more dangerous car that should be recalled?
Of course you need to know the absolute numbers of each model on the road (and to be sure that all the cars called A or B are actually really A or B, not much of a concern for cars) … but what more?
Assume the numbers of the two models on the road are exactly the same. Is it possible that the cars are still equally safe? That they did indeed hold up equally well on all crash tests? That given the same drivers and same roads and same conditions they’d each be as likely to produce the same crash fatality rates?
Would it matter if one was a performance sports car and the other was a family sedan? Would it matter that car A was more often bought by males under age 30 and had a higher rate of having been involved in crashes in which the driver was substance impaired and that car B was more often bought by women over 40 with 2 to 3 children?
Would a list of gruesome accidents (with details and photos) that car A was involved in prove that the vehicle was unsafe? Would a few accidents in which the driver of car A was woman over 40 with those 2 to 3 kids (that half kid is tricky) prove that the car is unsafe?
Would any of that prove that issue was an issue of the quality of the automobiles?
There is a place for appeals to authority. There are experts and what they say should be seriously considered.
What is entertaining and amusing is that the expert bodies pretty much all do not endorse breed specific laws. Again, when they announce action plans to deal with dog bites, including fatlities, they either do not include BSLs or only mention them in the context of speaking out against them as wrong-heading simplistic approaches that detract from actually addressing the problem. cougar has to resort to politicians posturing quick answers and to lawyers who make their living sueing over dog bites to find his/her “experts” and has to this point in time refused to answer why he/she thinks expert organizations as diverse as the major medical groups (pediatricians, plastic surgeons, the CDC, etc.), animal control expert groups, pet expert groups, legal expert groups, etc., all are nutter about Pit Bulls and deny that simple actions like passing a BSL are the way to go.
In this case cougar denies all authority even as (s)he tries to submit a lawyer whose livelihood is sueing over dog bites as one.
Funny.
What, you don’t think helicopter pilots are relevant authorities on dog breed identification?
Cars are recalled when a known defect at the point of design / assembly is confirmed.
In your example, some designers go above and beyond the requirements for areas, such as crumple zone, side and even curtain air bags, front radar collision avoidance, and even night vision on Cadillac, Audi A8, BMW 7 Series and Mercedes-Benz CL-Class. Any of these cars with these optional safety features, will be safer than those without. However, those cars without these expense options are not defective.
In 2 years, all new cars sold in the USA will be required to have back up night night vision cameras. Existing cars without them will not be banned.
You cite a poor example.
A better example would be a parent KNOWINGLY buying a 1972 Ford Pinto, or a 1964 Chevy Corvair, or a 2001 Toyota Camry, over a BMW, or even a 2010 Impala, for their child or spouse.
A teen girl is in the hospital today in Houston, because her dad opted to get two pit bull puppies, that she raised. She has over 100 puncture wounds.
Juan Ruiz says his daughter helped raise the dogs and he says the animals never displayed any aggressiveness before the attack. Animal control officials have placed the two dogs in quarantine.
Ruiz says he doesn’t want the 8 month old puppies back at the family’s home in northeast Harris County.
Beyond doubt, when she turns 16, Juan Ruiz will very likely consider buying her a 1972 Ford Pinto, and giving her the family drop-side baby crib. The personalized plates on the Pinto will likely say “BUTTER”…or something very similar.
Please stop with the idiotic anecdotes. We’re all tired of it, and the moderators have even asked you to stop.
From that story (once again, just for completeness’ sake):
“While Ruiz insisted the dogs had never shown any aggression before or caused any problems, but a neighbor told KHOU reporters that these Pit Bulls had previously attacked and killed a neighbor’s Shih Tzu.”
I’m not making a point pro or con here, just want to make sure all the information is given.
Cars are recalled when a known defect at the point of design / assembly is confirmed.
A BMW X1 will never be recalled because a Subaru Forester is slightly safer.
A BMW X1 will be recalled, if the day comes, that all deaths in the first four month of a given year, are because of an inherent design flaw in the BMW X1, and if 90% of the fatal crashes 6 months into the year, are traced to BMW X1’s.
They would especially be recalled, long before this, when it became apparent that their average % of fatalities was growing every 5 years, and consistently not only led all other types of cars in fatalities, but were several times more likely to cause death then the #2 most dangerous car, due to a known defect.
PS be sure to alert the Mod’s, that Dsied used the N-word just 4 posts up.
There’s a bit of difference in using the word in an ironic, “scare-quote” sense and as an ad hominem.
But it’s a fair question. My impression is that you think anyone who doesn’t support BSL against pit bulls (and I would assume other “aggressive dogs” like rotts, and possibly a few others) is somehow a “nutter.” We have very knowledgable organizations here like the medical groups and the CDC in particular–which I have to believe are neutral organizations–all coming out against BSL. Why is that? Do you think they’re staffed by these so-called “nutters” or somehow pro-pit bull organization have that kind of muscle that they could convince the CDC to come out and say BSL is not the best solution to dog-caused fatalities? Or maybe the situation isn’t quite that clear, and they do actually know what they’re talking about.
This issue of pit bulls is interesting to me. I think there can be a good conversation here (as I said before), and I do agree that some of the pro-pit stuff (like the “nanny dogs” meme) is suspect, if not complete made-up crap. But sites like dogsbite.org don’t help the situation, either, with all the appeals to emotion and ad hominems about anyone who might be supportive or take a more neutral stance on pit bulls and similar breeds. Personally, I’m wary of any dogs, although I do like dogs and I have volunteered at a shelter. The only fatality I personally know, after all, was from a labrador retriever, so I don’t trust any dog 100%.
So you are not going answer the straightforward questions asked again. Got it.
To make it clear, yes, cars are recalled when a known defect at the point of design/assembly is confirmed. Would the circumstance of more crash fatalities associated with car A over car B be sufficient to confirm an alleged defect in and of itself? Would that be sufficient to conclude there was “an inherent design flaw” in and of itself? As an automotive quality engineer, would that fact alone be enough for you to pull the cord and request that production be stopped? Is that a standard approach in the industry?
What does any of this have to do with your endless dog attack anecdotes? You make absolutely no sense.
It’s kinda obvious. Allowing PitBulls behind the wheel would be a hideous mistake from which mankind would never recover. Amiright, coug?
And I say the same thing about my Golden Retriever.
But I wasn’t aware that Goldens and Labs had been responsible for dozens of deaths in recent years.
:rolleyes:
Logical fallacies, indeed.
In other words, there are tens of thousands of pit bulls that haven’t attacked a soul, and temperment of a dog is still the best way to determine how it is likely to behave? Shocker.
Nobody in this thread has yet to demonstrate that pit pulls are any more dangerous than any other breed. Nothing showing how they are determining what breed these dogs are, and nothing showing how statistically likely they are to attack. On top of that, nobody has demonstrated whether breed is more of a factor than training. Nada. Zip. Zilch.
Your argument fails in every conceivable way.
Wait! I have proof! My Rottweiler-Border Collie and Pit Bull are trying to kill each other! YIKES!:eek:
Fail
The fact that “thousands of pit bulls haven’t attacked” is irrelevant
This is from Elsmars Cove, the Bible for Automotive Quality Engineers.
If 99.9% Were Good Enough, then…
Two million documents will be lost by the IRS this year.
22,000 checks will be deducted from the wrong bank accounts in the next 60 minutes
1,314 phone calls will be misplaced by telecommunication services every minute.
12 babies will be given to the wrong parents each day.
103,260 income tax returns will be processed incorrectly this year.
2,488,200 books will be shipped in the next 12 months with the wrong cover.
5,517,200 cases of soft drinks produced in the next 12 months will be flatter than a bad tire.
Two plane landings daily at O’Hare International Airport in Chicago will be unsafe.
18,322 pieces of mail will be mishandled in the next hour.
291 pacemaker operations will be performed incorrectly this year.
880,000 credit cards in circulation will turn out to have incorrect card holder information on their magnetic strips.
$9,690 will be spent today, tomorrow, next Thursday, and every day in the future on defective, often unsafe sporting equipment.
20,000 incorrect drug prescriptions will be written in the next 12 months.
114,500 mismatched pairs of shoes will be shipped this year.
$761,900 will be spent in the next 12 months on tapes and CDs that won’t play.
107 incorrect medical procedures will be performed by the end of the day today.
315 entries in Webster’s Third New International Dictionary of the English Language will turn out to be misspelled.
My coworkers are laughing LMFAO at your logic…and counting their blessings that you are not a supplier to Ford, GM, or Chrysler.
“But…but…but…we did make several thousand air bags that did not randomly explode”…
Your lack of responses to basic questions asked several times speaks volumes.
Your innumerancy while being an automotive quality engineer is frightening.
Wow.