Give me a break. You’re no closer to backing up the bullshit you spewed in your first post in this thread. All you’ve done is wave the hell out of your hands.
It’s rich that you’re criticizing my knowledge of breeding. Your earlier comment about dogs freezing at the mere sight of a duck made it very clear that, not only do you know squat about breeding, your ignorance on the subject of dogs in general is astounding.
You’re the one who expresses ignorance about whether people breed behaviors into dogs. I’ve cited law enforcement and the CDC and described my personal experience.
Did you miss my asterisked comment on that point? I thought the jokey aspect of that was obvious, but added the asterisk just in case.
In any case, at the point where you’re unwilling to admit (or are genuinely unaware of) the fact that humans try and succeed at breeding behaviors into dogs, the debate is pretty much over.
Yeah, congratulations on citing a study that the CDC itself says is flawed and has been debunked numerous times on this board over the past several years. Even if it wasnt, it doesn’t even back up your initial post.
Your ignorance was apparent even with the asterisk, which only referenced how still the dog stands.
It’s over because you have nothing at all supporting your assertions. Nothing.
You’re free to think anything you like, but lacking a cite I’m forced to think you don’t quite know what you’re talking about. Intelligence, independence, assertiveness, prey-drive, biddability and gameness are all traits that can be selected for. Violence (whole stop) is not. Furthermore, this:
is incredibly intellectually dishonest. The cite you reference does not prove your point. You admit this and yet seem to be claiming victory? If you would like to continue the debate, provide a cite backing up your assertion that violence (whole stop) can be bred into dogs, do not attempt to pirouette the debate on correlation and ask others to prove you wrong.
WHat about aggression?
Gosh, talk about hand-waving. I’ve got:
-What people have tried to do.
-What people believe they have done.
-Millennia of history of people doing similar things.
-Law enforcement’s belief that people have accomplished this thing.
-My own observations.
You’ve got:
-THe word “cite?” repeated over and over.
Are you going to reply to the substantive portion of my post and provide a cite or are you going to continue to act like a pigeon playing chess?
To answer your question: define aggression.
None of that does jack shit to support your claims in post 15.
If you don’t like requests for cites, then don’t say things that you can’t back up.
Pitbulls are good/nice dogs, (owner for 20 years)
Its no different then the concept of a gun, a gun can…
-Protect you from a killer/Theif/Rapist/Attacker
-Can assist you in hunting
-Can alert awarness when presented
All the same things a Pitbull or in other words just “Dog” in general can do…(We dident always have guns)
But a gun as we all know in the wrong hands can be devastating, it can be used in the wrong way, gotton for the wrong reasons, and so fourth… the same way a dog can be gotton…honestly, you cant be all that intimidated from a 30-50 pound dog…Pitbulls are just a hype in how ruthless, game and driven to kill, my district I live in is polluted with pitbulls, yet no bad rap/story ever came out of our town of pitbulls running a muck. Aleinating the hype, with factual social interactions are worlds apart, you dont see people fearing sait bernards because of the movie Kujo do you?
Pitbulls have no greater profoundancy of fighting chickens, they were once known and were bred more commonly to fight (gambling), but you wouldent be petrified of a chicken would you? There are dogs that have wracked up far more casualties in terms humans than pitbulls, and the media ignorantly always names the dog that bit someone in the news a pitbull, there are 900+ different breeds of dogs weather mixed or pure, and there are atleast 200 different breeds of dogs that visually resemble the pitbull, so unless the news reporters have a certificate of the dogs heritage or a blood sample Dna showing it was a american pitbull terrier…then the media should really tone it down with the word pitbull, unless everytime theres a roberry with a darksin person…they should just say that it was a african american…lol…Which there are more than 1 dark colored race/nationality I mind you.
I haven’t read most of the thread but I still nominate this post for the blue ribbon. “Profoundancy” put it over the top for me.
Again,
Its more of the “Hype”, the A.M.P.T after all has a strikingly resemblence to a Persona/Name that sounds affiliated with fighting…
“Pit—Bull”
I know a fair amount of how he obtained that title, and no it wasent for killing bulls or being the bully of a pit incorperating defeating other dogs/animals, he was originally used for gambling purposes for killing rats, they would stage a event where they’d time how long it would take to kill a pit full of rats, and or bet on which individual rat would last the longest before the dog gets at him.
Later this same dog was then matched with a akin of him self, the pitbulls heritage stems from over 4 different dogs… Allaunts, Bullenbeisers/bejiters, Staffordshires, American bulldogs, and more depending what reigons they were imported/exported too, they rarely fought other dogs, it consisted of Pitbull vs Pitbull, only in more modern ages the pitbulls were then pitted with other breeds, and he is no where even on the top 10…the american pitbull has only the title of Pound for pound the best fighting dog, as for the heavy hitters many dogs have been recorded killing pitbulls almost in a blink of an eye. They average only 30-50 pounds, before it was 20-40 pounds…now, with all the mixing going on, they can be somewhat larger and hevier, but then they do not “Don” the name Pit bull, it aquires the name of Bandogge, there are many types of bandogges, basically any mastiff mixed with any of the Bull and Terrier breeds are considered bandogges, and there job classes range from dog to dog.
Off the top of my head, the structural built and temperment of the Pit bull can be seen in many dogs, they can mirror there exact physiology of dogs such as…
-Alaunts
-Bully’s
-the american Bandog
-Dogo argintine
-Boxers
-Staffordshires
-American bulldogs
-Tosa ken
-Boerboel
-Bullmastiff
-Alono espeonoel
-Alpha blue blood dog
-The Ambulenno
-The presa canario
-The cane corso
-The molossor
-the amitola
-The austrlian bandog
-The aussie bulldog
-The banter bulldogge
-the bully kuta
-the bull terrier
And theres about a hundred more that can look like a Pitbull, reguardless of reputation, the pitbulls title is just all hype…once you mix a dog with another dog it becomes a whole new breed (ignorant people say Pitbull mix) but in fact everything changes, temperment wise, built wise, social attributes, everything, and to my knowledge there is 900+ different types of dog breeds, (not recongnized by org’s like A.K.C") and a fair amount of them look exactly like a pitbull.
I am 110% against animal creulty, and do not condole dog fighting, but I will defend the act of defence which is any living things right to do, the media is a bowl of twisting facts and pure bullshit if you ask me, I remember seeing a cop shooting one of the most freindliest of dogs (a Labador) because the dog approcuhed him on the dogs home property, the cop had no means, no reason, no cause, let alone it looked to be dileberate. I can promise anyone and everyone this much, if a Stranger, adult, kid, cop, good guy, bad guy…what ever…comes into my yard and threatins the safety of me and my family, and my dogs get to them before I can and my dog lays tooth on them and by law the city and county is ordered to take them away…Huh!..Not happening… not even god would be allowed to punish any one of my dogs, they are doing exactly what they are programed to do, they are simple minded that dosent mean they are stupid, but the bottom line is they follow the code of protection, hence dogs are what the world knows as “Mans best friend” which there main priorty is to protect there family.
As for trouble making dogs, its a no brainer, if the dog is indeed a bad dog, then punish him and him only, not the entire breed, not all white people are Kkk’s and not all blacks are crack heads, so dont stereo type a dog especially if you do not know what that dogs back story is, a stray dog (by birth) is in terms no different then a wild animal, and we are getting pass the eras of trophy hunting (which is beyound stupid), so just like all other wild animals they should be givin there space and respect.
If pit bulls are so nice, explain why those children are dead now
The part where you call me dishonest? No, actually, I’m not going to respond to that. If you’d like to ask me the question civilly, I’ll do my best.
I am seriously unclear on what you need a cite for in post 15. You’ve declared in advance, if I understand you correctly, that claims about the number of attacks by “breeds” are unfalsifiable, so of course I’d be wasting my time to provide you a cite for that part. Which other part would you like a cite for?
Any claim in that post, particularly the reasons why you’ve said there are more attacks by pit bulls.
Don’t misrepresent my post. I called your argument intellectually dishonest, that is lacking the rigor to be taken seriously, which it is (essentially by your own admission). I also didn’t ask a question, I made a statement: You have made a bold assertion - prove it to be true or admit it’s your opinion.
Furthermore, if that post was so uncivil as to render you incapable of responding to it, flag it. I’m sure a Mod would be willing to step in in order to get the debate back on an even keel. Otherwise you come across as evasive.
What a ignorant and stupid remark, put a stray “Any dog” chiwawa if you’d like…next to a infant without supervision and I bet you’d wind up with a mauled juvi, more people die from coconuts falling on there heads than dog related attacks, so what the hell are you on about.
The same ratios and percentages of people who raise there own kids the same way they raise there dogs (Family unity) have no attacks what so ever, strays are at higher risk the same way if you’d put some off the street hobo into your house, surley a crack head off the street would have more of a chance raping your kids if you allowed him to live with you unsupervised, then a stray dog biting your kids…whats the rule? Supervision, you must not ever let your guard down if that wasent your own raised prodigy/ friend and or family member…thats ignorance on there/your part if they do.
Dogs are only doing something thats natrual, shit you can tame a tiger or a elephant to live with you peacefully if you start by young, a stray dog should never be openly administrated as a family member, a guardian (in a kennel) but not a full on member of the family. But auh, your just one of this ignorant people since you’ve never owned or even know anything about pitbulls…you fit nicely in the catagorie of those people like the Racist ones, or the prejiduce ones, the ignorant and dumb, mostly known as the assholes.
The true down fall of socioty.
This is a very good point and one I’ve read over and over, that once the dog has attacked, it doesn’t let go, it can’t be chased away, frightened away, beaten away, and the cops usually have to shoot it to get it off someone, if the cops are there before the victim is torn to pieces.
Ignoring the silly snarkfest that this thread is descending into, can you appreciate that breed specific legislation will unfairly target ownership of AKC defined Pit Bulls, and do little about the “pit bulls” as casually defined by owners who only know that that name sounds more impressive than “muscular mean mangy mixed mutt (MMMMM)”?
Can you appreciate the difference between “Pit Bull” and “pit bull” and why those who know Pit Bulls are frustrated that idiots calling any MMMMM or junkyard dog a pit bull co-opts the name and confuses others thereby threatening their ability to own dogs that they love and know are stable gentle and playful?
Ive seen and been a part of enough accidental dog fights to know thats just a lode of crap, a water hose would sperate any dog from fighting if you shoot them in the face, no air means no attack, there back legs can be held while dragging them out of harms way, they can be pinned down easyer than a rookie wrestler just by weight alone.
An torn to peices, what are these bears and lions? Give me a break, thats the problem with people who never had hands on…there imagination takes them into the world of comic book logic…if I was ever attacked by any 30-50 pound dog, that dog would get King kong’d all over the place, Boer boels have just about 120 pounds over a pitbull and they would man handle a pitbull and or human any day, and still you dont hear about them (dogs) tearing people to peices.
Whats next, you’ll tell me they have lock jaw and a bite pressure of 10,000 like the so called expert scientist said on youtube? XD XD XD No dog has the ability to lock there jaws, and no dog can bite over 600 psi that has visual science proof to back it up…
Look how patheticly small the pitbull is to a rotti and german sheperd, wow so intimidating to be afraid of a sack of bones with fangs thats no longer than the tip of your finger, the pitbull has only 3/5ths the biting power of a rotti and people have beatin off rottweilers commonly, whats so hard of using your smarter brain and see that you could fight off something thats 1/6th the weight of a average human?
Sheesh, if you get bitten…then you get bitten, go cry about it, tell the next person who is attacked by a mugger to go and play dead, roll over and sit when they say hand over your wallet…be a man about it, that goes to women too, get involved in human activitys (to toughin your skin mentaly) such as sports, instead of crying that you broke a finger nail, if you are attacked than defend yourself…attack back, even the most dangerous predators such as bears, cougars, tigers, lions all show signs of retreat when the thing they are attacking shows accord of fighting back formidably, if they do… then a dog thats literaly only big as your legs should yeild to a defensive stance.