Look, of course one of the great things about this board is that people who know what they are talking about participate, and–when appropriate–back up their claims with citations.
But I agree with the OP’s perception that–to often–asking for a cite is just a hack debating tactic. It strikes me that some people like to just sit on their ass and say “cite?” as a lazy way to dismiss an argument that they disagree with. And furthermore, often they simply dismiss repeated cites when those are offered.
Do I have a cite for that? Yeah, I have a cite for that: it’s my observation based on reading these boards for several months.
If you read an op-ed piece in the Economist, or the New York Times, they do not provide footnotes and citations for every assertion that they make.
Sometimes, as in the case of tax protestors faq some wise soul has gone through and refuted every crazy allegation that some knucklehead is likely to make about a subject. (I heard there is a similar site aimed at the “moon shot was all a big conspiracy loonies”) But this is, of course, not always the case. And I’m not going to let a thread get hijacked just because I don’t have a cite handy.
I think LonesomePolecat had it right in this thread from several years ago. (This is the same thread that Achilles linked to above.)
But you have it right. You reported a “perception” and back it up with why you believe it to be so - your personal observations. For that statement personal observation is the best possible source.
I’d like to pit the lazy fucks who are too stupid to know that they do not know what they think they know; who can’t tell the difference between “It is commonly believed …”/“Most of us think that …”/“My impression is that …” and “This is true because I said so”/“This is true because my mama told me”/“I’ve had two experiences of this so it is always the case”/etc.
“Gee, Columbus, you fucker. Of course the world is flat! Everybody knows that.” The point isn’t to provide some cite (afterall the quality of sources material varies) but to say it right the first time and to question whether you really know what you think you know.
Because all us good lemmings know by now, snopes has the definitive answer to everything. Snopes is THE factual information authority of the world (as long as you can sort their bullshit from their facts).
Sqube: Be sure you’re doing an image search, and not an ordinary Google search. Also be sure your Google preferences are set to allow unsavory content.
What about anecdotal evidence or personal experience? How do you cite that?
On some subjects, personal experience can be in direct contrast to the written word, whether that word be in a book or on a website. True, it’s not a very good idea for a GD, but in GQ I think it often has merit. As long as it’s perfectly clear that it is a personal experience.
“I have personally observed on these boards a variety people make statements as if they are fact and then whine like babies when asked to support the statement. It seems to me that they are too stupid to realize that they don’t really know what they think they know and are unable to question their presumptions”
or
“I have observed many occassions when the only post that someone makes in a thread is to ask for a cite and brings nothing of value to a discussion. That annoys the crap out of me.”
Very valid statements with their cites self enclosed. To be evaluated based on the value of repeated personal observation (induction) and the rationality of the conclusion from the observation (deduction). Personal observation is a very valid basis for some kinds of statements and misleads other times.
Very different than Civil’s indefensible position of stating things as fact and being too lazy to back it up and too unaware to realize that it might not really be true if it is only something that he/she believes to be true without any basis of support. Yes, that is fine for a humble opinion, but then admit that such is all it is, don’t go putting it forth as “true”.
Something that annoys me (though I don’t see it very often) is a tendency for some to make the argument that since this is an online message board, the only legitimate cite is an online one. No print articles or books need apply.
Yeah, that’s usually the way I feel. For example, if I go and say something in a thread that’s VERY easily verifiable, and someone says “CITE?!”, it usually irritates me.
However, if someone states something controvertial or contentious as fact, and DOESN’T back it up with some kind of verification or backup, that usually qualifies for a cite prompt in my mind. For example, if someone said something wild like “Most white people in the US have had jock itch, while very few black people have.”, I would probably want verification of that statement. But if they’d said that Saturn V rockets have a payload of 118,000 kg to LEO, I’d probably not question it- I just found that on the FIRST Google entry for “Saturn V payload”, therefore any other person with 2 brain cells to rub together could also.
I agree though… many people around here use it as a smart-ass argument tactic instead of a way to legitimately ask for verification of an assertion.
