Exactly. Exactly. Whatever you believe - not just if you decide that abortion is a great idea. Even if you think abortion is morally wrong - no one has ANY RIGHT to force their decision on you.
Got that?
Regards,
Shodan
You must be in the wrong thread; this one is about birth control.
Are you missing something or do you just want to rant? If the latter, then go for it. If the former, then we’re discussing the ability of a pharmacist to arbitrarily deny filling a legal prescription.
If this continues I can foresee Catholic pharmacies, Baptist pharmacies, and maybe some empty buildings labelled Jehovah’s Witness pharmacies. As far as your abortion rant goes, WTF is up with that? Nobody is asking a pharmacist to operate the suction machine or whatever.
Testy
I respectfully disagree.
If you believe that a fertilized egg is a human, then birth-control pills act as an abortafacient (sp?), and it is all about abortion.
Now, if I, Joe Owner, opens Right-To-Life Drugs, and I don’t want to stock BC or rubbers, what gives you the right to make me. If I hire right to life pharmacists, I am happy with their work.
If I open You Choose Pharmacy and sell BC, that’s fine too, and it is on me to hire pharmacists with a similar view. I should also be able to fire anybody not acting in a way that supports my policy.
Now, it has been argued that Drs. that don’t prescribe BC pills are scum, just because they are supporting their own beliefs. OK, you have a right to that oppinion, and to not patronize that GYN.
Now, does a DR. that does not support the death-penalty have a moral obligation to carry out a sentence on a condemmed murderer, or may that Dr. rely on his ethics to not perform a lethal injection?
No, God never gave people a direct command to remain poor. In fact, there’s a “Health and Wealth” version of the gospel that emphasizes God’s desire to bless everyone. The problem of evil is probably outside the scope of this debate. OTOH, God did give Adam a direct command to procreate. So there’s the general thought that God wants people to prosper, and there’s the direct injunction to “be fruitful and multiply.”
Hiebram
Christ, you’re stupid. You’re so fucking stupid that your stupidity causes negative air pressure as the constant suction from your skull sucks small objects through one ear and out the other as you constantly miss point after point. You are so stupid that if a woman showed you an ocean, you’d call it a desert and her a liar. You’re so stupid that Terri Schiavo could out think you. (Sorry to Ms. Schiavo.) Most of all you’re so fucking stupid because it’s not about you and your feelings about abortion, you stupid numbfuck.
Birthcontrol pills prevent abortion. It’s really simple.
So I don’t really have much right to choose, do I? I can choose to assist in performing abortions, that’s fine. But I cannot refuse to do so.
**So I don’t really have much right to choose, do I? I can choose to assist in performing abortions, that’s fine. But I cannot refuse to do so. **
God, you’re fucking stupid. Abortion is a surgical procedure that happens after pregnancy. Birth control pills prevent pregnancy. Here’s a bunch of assholes–and Shodan, evidently—refusing to provide birth control pills to women who don’t want to get pregnant. And then whining about it because their rights to be interfering, self-righteous selfish fucks have been infringed upon! Oh, the horror!
Abortion. Birth control. Learn the difference. And stop whining. You don’t have any right to control anybody else.
OK, a couple of things on that and then I’ll shut up. You are right that this is a hijack.
Yes, I understand that there was no direct command to remain poor but that wasn’t really the point. The point was in trying to change your circumstances through your own efforts rather than wait for God to take care of it. OK then, a different example. Suppose you are crippled or maimed. Should you use medical technology to change that or should you leave the matter in God’s hands?
I’ve heard of the “Health and Wealth” version of theology. Isn’t that the thing Benny Hinn and some others preach?
Regards
Testy
Well, it would help if you believed something that had some basis in reality. Birth control pills prevent fertilization and implantation of fertilized eggs. It’s not abortion. Also, it’s not you. Don’t like abortion? Don’t have one. We’re also not talking about Joe Anti-Choice, who has signs that proclaim that his soon-to-be-out of business business doesn’t sell anything he doesn’t approve of. We’re talking about people who sign up for a job, agree to its terms and then whine that they want to violate the contract they sign, the rights of their female customers and any number of professional ethics—all of which they had previously agreed to. We’re talking about deception, self-righteous moralizing, and oh, yeah, a lack of follow through. I mean, if these guys are so determined to stop distributing birth control pills, then they’d better be prepared to adopt all those kids. I mean, it’s so easy to say you disapprove of someone’s choice, but when you force that choice on them, you’d better be prepared to subsidize it, then.
Not the best choice for a medication that becomes less effective the longer you wait to take it, and absolutely needs to be taken within 72 hours.
Unless Walgreens ships really, really fast.
Read. The. Freaking. OP. You. Naughty. Knee-Jerker.
So you didn’t read the OP either, is that the problem?
(Emphasis added for the reality-impaired).
For someone who believes that a zygote is fully human, the morning after pill is an abortifacient. Ergo, filling a prescription for the morning after pill is assisting in obtaining abortions. See how simple that was?
I am not sure what the point was in repeating the places where you contradicted yourself.
People (and you as well, margin) have the right to decide for themselves whether or not abortion is morally OK. If they decide abortion is not OK, no one should force them to obtain or assist in obtaining an abortion. If they decide it is OK, no one can prevent them from obtaining or assisting in obtaining an abortion.
Seems pretty straightforward to me, but then again my IQ is higher than room temperature, so it is hard for me to be empathetic.
Very good. Now stop adding “unless they won’t do as they are told” and we will be all set.
Regards,
Shodan
God, you’re fucking stupid.
The issue is whether these people should take jobs that require they do things they KNOW will conflict with those beliefs—which are scientifically invalid, you twit. I mean, Jesus Christ, the fundies keep ratcheting the definition of abortion backward. First it was a fetus. Then that wasn’t enough, and it had to be just implanted. Then it had to be fertilized clump of cells. Soon, it’ll be any old egg, because hey, it COULD get fertilized.
Don’t become a pharmacist if you don’t want to perform the fucking job, dipshit. They’re the ones enforcing their beliefs on other people. And if you believe birth control pills are an abortifacient, you’re ignorant. They prevent fertilization, although some prevent implantation. Either way, Shodan, are you in position to take them? Do you pop birth control pills every morning? If not, what dog do you have in this hunt?
Oh, that’s right.
None.
Hey, dumbass, the morning after pill prevents conception, it does not kill a fertilized egg. It is not in any way an “abortificant.”
As to the pharmacists in question. Their religious rights entitle them to choose not to work for a pharmacy that supplies contraception. They are not entitled to take a paycheck from their employers if they are unwilling to do their jobs.
Where the hell do you see anybody here saying “abortion is a swell idea?” For that matter, where in this thread do you see people even debating the idea of abortion? You’re turning this thread into something it’s not.
P.S. Shodan, the morning after pill cannot terminate an already established pregnancy. The way it works is this: if you haven’t ovulated yet, it delays ovulation. If you have ovulated, it prevents an egg from implanting. As Diogenes stated, it’s not an “abortificant.” Just so you know.
Nor is it an abortifacient. But a person of Shodan’s profound and malignant brand of ignorance wouldn’t know that, either.
I am sorry, I see abortifacient was the wrong word in my post. What’s the right word?
And if you see a fertilized egg as a human being, is there a distinction between abortifacient and whatever the right word is for somebody that believes that?
From Prevention.com:
You want to play that game?
Well, you’re not seeking an abortion, so you have no right to object to what the pharmacists are doing, so shut the fuck up.
Thanks, but methinks there is a bit of redefining going on here. Eggs don’t generally implant unless they are fertilized. Preventing a fertilized egg from coming to term is considered (by some) to be an abortion, thus they are refusing to assist in doing this.
What you seem to be doing is to change the definition of “valid human life that should not be killed” away from “zygote”, which is the definition agreed to by the pharmacists, to “zygote that has travelled down the Fallopian tubes and been implanted in the wall of the uterus”.
And the power to enforce definitions of what constitutes a human life is at the very center of the abortion debate. If I am allowed to define for you at what point an abortion involves a separate human life, the “right to choose” becomes meaningless.
Which is, I suspect, exactly why the pro-abortion advocates[sup]*[/sup] in this thread are so excited about it. If they can get away with defining away the problem, they can overrule the rights of others to choose, and thus impose their point of view on others.
Regards,
Shodan
[sup]*[/sup]No, it would not be correct to refer to them as “pro-choice”, since they are advocating removing the right to choose about abortion under some circumstances, and those circumstances usually seem to be whenever someone refuses to cooperate with some form of abortion-on-demand. Thus they are properly referred to (in this thread) as “pro-abortion”. “Pro-choice” necessarily includes the choice of “No”, else it is no choice at all.
Well, then, said pharmacist should have stated his beliefs up front, or not taken the job. If he’s hired to dispense medication, then he’s hired to dispense ALL medication that pharmacy carries.
Pregnancy doesn’t happen until implantation-how many fertilized eggs don’t even make it to the uterus anyways?
If the dumbass was to me, well, I am trying to learn.
If you read all of the article linked in the OP you will note that some of the large pharmacy chains are supporting this by trying to accomodate the Pharmacists for Life. That makes them doing the job they are getting the paycheck for if their employers accept it.