Pitting Jane Says and Terminator Gold 3000 - by Manhattan's Request

You should get out more.

You’d think so, wouldn’t you?

Will poppy-seed bagels cause you to fail a drug test?

Quoth Cecil: “Let’s not beat around the bush. The answer to your question is yes”

Sorry to disappoint.

OK, so RexDart should have said “not to use drugs or eat poppy-seed bagels”. Got everything covered now?

No, don’t think it’s all “covered”.

1st: Tobacco is more addictive than mary jane. That’s if mary jane is addictive at all. Just because a media company reports a story that it is, doesn’t make it so.

2nd: There are plenty more addictive drugs legally available. How about alcohol? Personally, I’d rather be on a plane where the pilot had smoked a joint, than on a plane where the pilot was wrecked on half a bottle of Jack.

Sorry, what is a “head shop”?

Someone in detox may be tested a couple hundred times before their treatment is over. If the test is 98% accurate, and you’re tested 200 times, 4 times it’s going to give a wrong answer. That’s doesn’t mean a successful cheat, it means no test is perfect.

Also, not every positive result is reported to the patient/client in every situation. Some interpret this as a succesful “cheat”. It’s not. Just because they aren’t confronted doesn’t mean their use was unknown.

It’s like any other form of quackery. People are desparate, they WANT to believe.

Yes, that happens, too.

I prefer the ones where the sample is sent to an actual lab over the “test strip” ones because, as I pointed out, test strips are least reliable. If you’re going to test, do it right.

Reliability involves more than just the test itself. Unless the urination is actually witnessed by someone who is familiar with the most common ways to cheat by substitution, someone is going to figure out how to swap dirty urine for clean. If you aren’t willing to insist on witnessed urination a LOT of kids will eventually wind up cheating. Of course, a lot of people find this intrusive and demeaning, and it is. It’s going to be a hard sell. The kids will scream - heck, I would, too. No one said drug testing was fun.

Is it possible to cheat on a witnessed drug test? Yes, actually it is. But I’m not going to tell you how. And I doubt the average high school kid would be willing to do what was required - unless he or she was actually an addict.

Can we clarify what we are talking about here? There is a world of difference between a heroin addict and a joint smoker.

Cannabis is not addictive, in my experience. I have smoked occasionally, when I was younger. At no point did I feel that I needed to get another joint.

Smoking a join may make you feel sleepy, giggly, tired. Alcohol can make you feel aggresive, out of control, confrontational. Lets get things in perspective.

The point is (in answering the OP), if you need to pass a drugs test, don’t smoke any illegal drugs for a couple of weeks before the test.

Frankly, I don’t want either types under the influence while driving a car, or performing certain vital tasks. The problem is, alcohol isn’t illegal. I don’t drink, and frankly I wouldn’t give a rat’s ass if it was illegal. But it isn’t. Other drugs are, however, so testing will be done on them.

That’s excellent advice.

And if someone is just absolutely unable or unwilling to do that, (and apparently many are) then they have a drug problem that they need to resolve.

If they are too out of control or too stupid to know to not partake for a few weeks before a test, I have little sympathy for them.

If your marijuana smoking causes a problem, it’s a problem. Hell, if you drink coffee to the point it causes health problems, keeps you up all night, and costs so much you can’t buy decent food or pay your rent you have a serious drug problem.

The problem is that there is no way to distinguish between someone still high and someone who used last week. There’s no way to know from the test that you use once a month versus once every hour. In our “zero tolerance” neo-prohibition once a month is as bad as once an hour. I don’t personally agree with that stance (a point I keep repeating and which keeps getting lost on some folks) but that happens to be the law these days, and running afoul of the law can cause you definite problems.

Nope, don’t believe that - but I also think you need a damn good reason to justify - on a moral level - breaking the law. If you get caught, there are consequences you will suffer, however morally justifiable your actions may have been.

Go back and re-read my post. I did NOT say I gave up drinking entirely. And I haven’t. But since I refuse to drink and drive (from a moral stance as much as a legal one) that elminates most of the work week and refuse to drink and fly that eliminates most of the weekend. (FAA rules are a minimum of 8 hours “bottle to throttle”, and they suggest 24 - which I happen to agree with because the effects of alcohol continue even after you are no longer drunk. This may not be a problem with your car, but it can affect a pilot flying a plane). That means the drinking happens during times like Thanksgiving, or this New Year’s where I spent the night at the party location. We did have booze available at the airport Christmas party, but it didn’t get opened until after the flying was over, which is perfectly legal and moral and proper.

And on that we are in agreement. I believe in treatment over incarceration for drug abuse. I put my money where my mouth is for four years. What have YOU done to help solve the problem?

A place where you go to purchase such things as rolling papers for joints, bongs, pipes, and other items useful for using, lumped under “drug paraphenalia” by the cops. Also pro-drug artwork including posters, clothing, and bumper stickers. And products claiming to help you cheat drug tests. If they don’t actually sell illegal drugs the shops are legal, but considered sleazy by many and viewed with a great deal of suspicion by the authorities.

I agree with the gist of your posts, but I have a problem specifically with you singling out marijuana as an evil drug. You are implying that marijuana is so addictive that people have to spend their rent to get another fix. I’m sorry, but this is bullshit IMO. Poeple smoke marijuana for exactly the same reason that poeple drink beer. They like to relax, get high for a while. They don’t do anyone any harm. Maybe you’d be suprised how many people smoke a joint at the weekend, and go on to start work on Monday morning as lawyers, programmers (is this a suprise to you?), cops (yes, cops), delivery drivers, etc etc.

Just as an addendum, in some locations even bongs and the like are illegal. Shops might then sell these under the counter instead, or might just provide whatever else they can that’s still legal.

:eek: I would rather not be on either plane thank-you-very-much.
Alcohol may be legal, but it is illegal for a pilot to fly after drinking about amount of Jack.

any amount of Jack was (of course) what I meant to say.

Thanks Broomstick! I have never heard of one of these before. I have visited “new agey” places selling bits of paraphernalia, but the only really blatant place was in Nimbin, Australia, which is famous anyway for drug use.

Here there’s nothing like that, but shisha pipes are totally legal (for tobacco only!) and on sale everywhere. They make nice souvenirs.

As Gr8kat noted, this is a bogus statement.

Personal testimonials are what sellers of all manner of worthless drugs and remedies have been hiding behind for centuries, from 19th-century patent medicines to body part-enlarging products. Just because some quack Internet business tells you that suckers A and B lost weight, grew hair or found a better sex life by drinking a quart of cider vinegar a day doesn’t mean the stuff has any medical value. Controlled, reputable clinical studies are what you should look for.

If drinking some crap makes you think you’ve beaten a drug test, whoopee for you. It’s possible you could achieve the same frequency of success by wearing dark-colored clothes or eating romaine lettuce. Anyone who relies on your “personal testimony” rather than solid evidence is throwing their money away.

samarm from my experience (running a correction center for 14 years), the ‘addicts’ that would go the length to beat a visual drug screening were typically heroin, cocaine. Alcoholics damn near always got caught. (and no, I’m not going to tell you how they did it either, though Broomstick I did come up w/a system that females in particular couldn’t fake. )

I do in fact believe that there are those folks who have “gotten by” on tests. But I write it off to luck, poor test quality, etc. I know there were times we tossed specimins vs. testing them and I suspect that’s happening to some folks who believe these things work.

Remember each test is designed to minimize false positives (testing a negative sample and judging it positive) but also has a high threashold for false negatives (testing a positive sample and judging it negative).

This was at least hinted at above, but worth pointing out.

Some companies have policies that all applicants be tested for drugs. Some then have a policy that a failed drug test results in a no hire. Others do not. I know of three big companies that have knowingly given jobs to people who failed their drug test. If the applicant is the right one for a hard to fill job, sometimes a failed drug test may be overlooked. Or if its a high turnover situation, sometimes the employee may be hired anyway, and then, if the drug use is problematic, may not make it past the probationary period - but if the drug use isn’t problematic, may be allowed to stay on.

So being hired does not necessarily mean you had a successful flush and cheated the test. It may mean your employer is on to you, but doesn’t care enough.

I guess this is one of those situations where clearly we’ll have to agree to disagree. I know from personal experience and the experiences of those I know that the product works. If you never smoke dope and never need to take a urine test, then you can argue all you like about it not working, but you have no evidence that your claim is true. Saying “It’s snake oil” or “That won’t pass you, but I know a way that will. Unfortunately, it’s classified information, for you see I developed this system…” To me it’s like arguing whether God exists - pointless for both sides. If you say your sister’s cancer went into remission because you prayed to God for it to happen, and I say no way, God doesn’t exist, it was pure coincidence, we’re also stuck at an impasse. I see this argument the same way.

Broomstick, I am still waiting for an apology for your use of outrageous hyperbole and personal insults. I have never advocated selling crack to toddlers, beating grandmas, kicking puppies, or anything else where your foul characterization of me might have been suitable. The things you said were unwarranted and entirely out of line. You know that as well as I do. Do the right thing.

Well now. Cannabis is not physiologically addictive, but it can certainly be psychologically addictive.

One of my friends smokes up everyday. He smokes about 5 - 6 joints a day, at work. (He steps outside to toke up).

If he doesn’t smoke up, hes a mess. He can’t function. Hes jittery and high-strung and useless.

Obviously, in his profession, his drug use is not a problem - he’s quite successful. Unless you knew him, you wouldn’t know that he was stoned out of his gourd all the time. He’s quite coherent.

However, I certainly wouldn’t want this person flying a plane I was on. Or driving a train or bus, for that matter.

I like to drink a glass of wine once and a while. However, just because **I[b/] drink in moderation doesn’t mean there are no alcoholics.