I’m trying to decide who’s more annoying - puking drunks or panicky, self-righteous teetotalers.
I guess it depends on what the puking drunks have been eating.
Dude, read the OP. I believe we were talking about parent interaction with kids. Being eightteen or nineteen does not stop you from being an adult. Your parents are no longer legally responsible for you, and in the majority of cases you’re no longer in the house. Thus, these legal adults are not on topic with the OP, or the thread in general. They also have little to do with my point. If you think I’m stupid for no better reason than that I think of adults as adults, rather than teens, then there’s really no point in discussion, is there? We both know (whether you care to admit it or not) that college students are a different demographic than high school students, and should be treated as such.
One should also note that the studies cited are not clear on whether all alcohol use is included. Let’s face it, a glass of wine with Christmas dinner is a tad different from, say, going to a party, getting drunk and waking up the next morning with a massive hangover. You specifically were referring to the latter in the passage which I quoted. On top of that, getting stoned once and deciding it’s not for you is different from doing it regularly (and, FTR, I know people and have friends in both categories). It’s just that one is going to be a much bigger deal than the other, though both are unwise.
Being aware of drugs may be universal; getting stoned on a regular basis is not.
No. If you think so, tighten up your reading because you’re adding words. Were I talking about myself in any way, shape, or form, I would have probably used a pronoun like “I”, “me”, or at least I would have made a reference to people who don’t do drugs. I didn’t.
Glad to see that you got me pegged in a mere two paragraphs. Let’s summarize. Based off of two (short) posts, you have managed to extrapolate the following:
-that I have bad conduct (though you didn’t explain why)
-that I have a superiority complex
-that I’m stupid
-that I don’t know what maturity is
-that I like DARE
-that I’m a shmuck
You seem to be reading between the lines. From the number of conclusions you reached, I can only think that the text between the lines is very small.
Dude, like, where’s my car?
First it’s teenager, now it’s “kid”. Whatever. In either case, I’d hope that a person’s parents still take an active interest in their lives and try to teach them well. In addition, one of the reasons so many kids go from highschool and go nuts freshman year is because they’ve never done it before and they’re away from mom and dad for the first time.
Nah, I think you’re an idiot for entirely different reasons. Although, yes, it is absolutely moronic to believe that college kids are magically adults because they pass a certain arbitrary age. They’re called ‘college kids’ because, for the most part, they’re still kids. Kids in glorified summer camp with sex, drugs, and rock n’ roll.
There was a reason I used high school seniors and then looked at the 18-25 age group. People in an age group… get older. I know, rocket science. Try to keep up.
Yes. They are.
Wow… you’d think you were getting a handle on what responsible drug use is all about. But then again, I’d suspect that you harbor some sort of moral complex about those who get drunk and then end up hung over. I’d also point out that for most young people without tollerance, a glass of wine should be more than enough to get them tipsy.
Moralizing schmuck.
And yes, not all people like the same drugs, it’s almost like… like… we have different nervous systems. Weird, eh? But the fact remains, the choice to use drugs or not, the interaction with friends/peers who have to make that choice, is part of growing up.
Jeez, do you have to work at being this stupid, or does it come naturally?
When you make a statement about ‘those who like to get blasted’, you are A) tacitly implying that you are not part of that group B) placing an overt moral judgement on them.
Idiot. Unless, of course, you’re saying that you are, in fact, one of those people who likes to get blasted and you’ve got some weird self loathing thing going on. Like I said, tighten up your prose.
Yeah, I’m good like that.
In this thread, sure. I have no idea what you’re like in real life, but if this is any indictaor, you’re a straight edge tight assed motherfucker.
Do you or do you not look down on those who use drugs for fun and ‘get blasted’? Do you or do you not consider yourself to be more wise than those who use drugs? If you yourself use drugs, then you’re a janus faced jackass.
Yep.
Yep.
Or at least you talk like one of their mouthpieces. ~shrugs~ Six of one, half dozen of another.
Yeepers.
You mean… I’m… looking at what you write, and talking about your paradigm, assumptions, and value judgements? Better report my post to the mods right away!
When I saw this commerical, I immdiarly thought…
“Yeah, or she could have smoked a joint and had an otherwise normal evening. Why do these people assume that pot = totally screwing up your life when there are a lot of people who use it responsibly”
My 14-year-old-at-the-time neice admitted to me sometime last year that she had tried pot. Knowing this girl, I would assume that she was really telling me after several “tries”, but that’s not the point.
Not knowing exactly what to say, and not being her mother (for which I thank my stars each and every night), I knew I had two options:
I could be the “cool” aunt and say something like, “Wow! did you like it? did you get that weird weightless sensation like I got when I tried it my first time?”
But I felt like I needed to say something more mature like, “Well, the only advice I have to give you is be careful with even the most benign drugs. Do your best to learn what reality really is before you start fucking around with what you think it is.”
So I settled on a fair combination of the two. I asked her what she thought about it (to which I got the standard answer of: i didn’t really like it all that much) and then I told her to keep a firm hold on reality without clouding up her still-learning mind.
My point is: when it comes to kids of any age, it is our responsibility (those of us with kids) to point out the potential dangers that lay in their paths. Whether they choose to avoid it or charge head-on right into it is up to them, but if they venture out unarmed against certain temptations and pitfalls, they will almost certainly fall.
Eggggggggggzactly. Which child is better prepared:
-one who has been told that drinking is simply wrong,
or
-one whose parents have told him that as an inexperienced drinker he won’t be able to tell how drunk he’s getting that you can always drink more but never drink less so take it easy, that there are real dangers to drinking too much and sometimes even to just getting somewhat drunk. That it would be better that he didn’t drink but if he’s going to, to at least be safe. That he should never drink and drive or get in the car of someone who’s been drinking,and that if he’s ever in an unsafe situation that they’ll come and pick him up without a second thought and without a single moralizing word?
What Finn] said. I would like to add that it applies to almost any drug I can think of (the exception I am thinking of is datura - from which I have never seen pleasant results). Responsible use of intoxicants is fine, it is only abuse which leads to problems.
Which is what the ad was trying to say: Communicate with your kid! Those commercials aren’t for the kids, they’re designed to wake up some parents to their responsibilities as a parent.
Silenus, I think you’re wrong.
Which of the two are they counseling, responsible drug use, or non-use?
I kinda get the idea that they want to tell kids that, well, using pot isn’t ok.
You know… I get the idea that they’re trying to prevent drug use.
Still think they’re counseling responsible drug use?
It really is the analog of abstinence only education. Kids will still fuck. And, in this scenario, will the kid most likely respect his parents or do his damndest to hide his life from them? If he’s really in trouble, will he call them to bail him out, or will he be too afraid of how they’ll punish him?
I think get the OP at all. In the commercial, the girl was not raped. She did not choke on her own vomit. She did not get into a car and wrap herself around a tree. She did not fail the SAT the next day because she was hungover. We don’t know if she’s an alcoholic.
But this kind of shit happens a lot, because kids who get drunk tend to fuck things up for themselves and others.
I suppose knowing that “kids will be kids” does undermine the effectiveness of the commercial. But passing out in a strange house is neither a normal or a natural stage in growing up iand it shouldn’t be. We try to encourage all sorts of positive behavior in kids. Stay in school. Get involved in the community. Read. These are good things. I don’t know how the message “Don’t Get Drunk and Stoned” is any different.
Because it’s as effective as the message “Don’t have sex before marriage.”
It also yields college freshmen who go absolutely insane because, for the first time, mommy and daddy can’t see what they’re doing and goddamn if they’re not curious about all the neat things that they couldn’t do.
“Ralphie, why are you so interested in my forbidden closet of mystery?” -Chief Wiggum.
Of course not. They are talking about kids, and as I’ve stated before, IMO if you are a minor there is no such thing. You are not capable, legally, of making such a decision. Are we ever going to wipe out drug abuse? No. But saying “Hey, it’s ok, just don’t overdo it” isn’t a good message either.
We really aren’t far apart on this. I spent my time as a youth smoking grass…lots of grass. I still miss it sometimes. But I had to make a choice between grass and my career, and the career won. Young people have to make the same choice, and having communication with the parents is the first step to a wise choice.
I lose students or former students every year or so to drug or alcohol-related incidents. It kinda hits home, you know? And I know very few students who, in a party situation, are capable of saying “No, I’ll just sip this beer.” Binge-drinking pretty much defines teenage drinking. They don’t have a Pilsner Urquell with dinner…they pound a case of Natural Light. If all they were doing was sitting around, smoking a bowl or three and laughing at bad movies, I wouldn’t have such a knee-jerk reaction to it. But they usually don’t. And I can tell you from personal experience that grass and school-work don’t mix very well at all. This is an increasing complex and technological world we are living in…these kids need to be on the top of their game if they expect to ever be more than their parents are. Grass doesn’t help.
Just my $02.
Yes it is. Although I’d prefer “These are the dangers associated with drug use, this is how to use them so you minimize your risks, and we’re always here for you no matter what. You’ll make stupid decisions, because that’s part of learning good judgement. Just please be safe and try not to do anything that can’t be undone.”
And, legality aside, yes, minors are quite capable of making informed decisions. We have a very weird system in this country/culture where we delay maturity as long as humanly possible, and then expect kids to grow up over night.
Fallacy of hasty generaliztion.
I’m sorry to hear it got in the way of your job, honestly I am. But there are many, many people who smoke and still handle their shit.
So, kids will drink/use drugs no matter what we tell them, right?
So isn’t it better to tell them how to use drugs/drink safely?
Yes, kids will binge, partially because they don’t know what it’s like to be drunk or how much it takes. Explain how quick alcohol can hit them, how it can slur judgement, etc… or go with Veb’s tack and point out that they’ll be drooling vomit covered losers if they take it too fast.
True, but, then, isn’t it better to tell them just that? That drug use isn’t horrible, as long as it doesn’t get in the way of school and as long as they’re in a safe enviornment and not driving?
For you, and others, but not everybody. I’ve known people who did quite well with school while using drugs of one sort or another.
I know a good few writers, poets, artists, etc… who would disagree with you in the strongest possible terms.
Yes, I dig, but that’s part of the point. What works for you might not work for others. What harms you might not harm others. Part of learning to be an adult is having the freedom to fuck up and the ability to learn what’s good for you rather than the abstraction of the-average-man. No, drugs aren’t for everybody. But all I’m saying is that an ounce of knowledge is worth a pound of cure.
Fine. Sure. I’m a “straight edge tight assed motherfucker” if you say so. You, on the other hand, decided to more or less randomly attack another poster, simply because you disagreed with them, decide what this person is like. This was, I remind you, after I wrote TWO FREAKING POSTS!
And the whole time, you don’t realize that I drink wine or beer very occasionally. It’s legal in Europe for someone of my age, and in certain circumstances legal in North America. For the record, I have never even gotten tipsy- as I use it, it is not a mind-altering beverage.
Idiot. I didn’t really want to talk about me, because you know, it isn’t the point. Even in the pit, a poster’s points and arguments are relevent; what your distorted brain thinks the poster is like in real life is irrelevant, and in this case, stupid.
Moral complex Shmoral complex. Passing out, as a doctor has pointed out in this thread, is inherently unsafe. It is impossible to justify an unsafe action done for any of the reasons I gave.
DARE is boring and obnoxious. FWIW, you read like a dealer.
If kids are going to do “what kids are going to do”, why tell them anything? Why encourage them to stay in school or go to college? Why have public service announcements in the first place, if people are just going to do what they are going to do anyway?
I don’t agree. I don’t think Don’t Drink and Drive encourages people to drink and drive. I don’t think Stay In School encourages kids to drop out of school. I don’t think Drink Responsibly encourages binge drinking. So it doesn’t follow, for me, that Don’t Get Drunk and Stoned will encourage kids to get drunk and stoned. If kids do what they’re going to do anyway, the message won’t affect them one way or the other, right?
- Not random. I read what you said, then responded.
- To be fair, they were two really freaking stupid posts.
So? You’ve still cast aspersions on those who do use it as a mind altering substance. This changes what, exactly?
Jesus you self rightous moralizing shitstain, get this through your skull:
- Even in the Pit, obnoxious punks get called out. Deal with it fucker.
- Even your points are stupid, and yes, obnoxiously moralizing. Suck it up.
Again lumpy, try reading text instead of just vomiting it out, mmmkay?
Six of one, half dozen of another. Either you’re a stright edged tight ass motherfucker, or you’re just posting like one. In either case, I’d advise you to cram your self righteous holier-than-thou bullshit right up your ass.
No. Fool. Drinking till you are unable to remain conscious is inherently unsafe. Quadgop himself pointed out that there was a difference between drinking a six pack and passing out later in the night, and drinking till you cannot remain conscious. Other posters have pointed out the same thing. Fucking ignorant tool.
Moralizing asshole munching waste of space.
It is not your right to tell any other human being what type of consciousness-experience their life should be. Fuck you for even trying you fascist-of-the-spirt, you fucking policeman of the mind. Fuck off and fuck you.
Yeah, I’m a dealer. Wanna buy a clue, motherfucker?
Ignorant loud mouthed shit brained child.
So, absintance only education, or sex education?
Are you aware of the sucess rates of both?
Because, instead of lying and fear mongering, we can give them the truth. Kids still will make mistakes, but far better for them to be armed with the truth, no?
You’re lumping things together which do not belong. First off, ‘drink responsibly’ is exactly what I’ve been talking about. Second, there’s a difference between life threatening activities like drunk driving, future threatening activities like dropping out of school, and smoking a relatively harmless plant. Also, many more kids are curious about drugs than want to work at McDonalds for the rest of their lives or simply have to expeience what drunk driving is like.
Now, “Don’t get drunk and stoned” will not encourage kids to do so, that’s a strawman. It will, however, have much less effect than actually teaching them about responsible drug use.
Again, absintance only education?
“Just say no to sex.”
Because, as we all know, kids aren’t at all curious about sex, or drugs.
Wrong.
If kids are going to do whatever they’re going to do, we can make sure they’re as safe as possible doing it.
Again, absintance only education. Kids will fuck. No matter what we say, or threaten them with. They will. So, do we teach them how to have safe sex, or do we just say “NO SEX!! Well, at least no sex until you’re 18, and then you won’t have learned how to be safe about it anyways, but at least I don’t have to acknowledge that you’re a sexual being.”
FinnAgain, so are you against or for the commercial in the OP? What lies and fear-mongering did it spread? I’m confused about your position.
And yes, I’m well aware of the success rate of abstinence. But the commercial in the OP did not say “Encourage your kids to never drink and smoke pot”. The message was simply “Talk to your kids”, which seems to be exactly what you’re advocating.
I’ve laid that out pretty well through the first bit of this thread. Do you have any questions on what I’ve written? Again, the group who produced the commercial has an agenda, that agenda is not communication. It only involves communication in as much as parents are supposed to communicate their prohibition.
Knowing the group that produced the ad, and knowing what values they want, do you really think the message is ‘talk to your kids’ and not ‘talk to your kids so they know never to do drugs and so they can avoid such a horrible situation?’
You are presuming an agenda. There’s no proof that the message is anything but what’s presented in the commercial.
(And you don’t have to get all snarky either, dude. I don’t have to the time, patience, or desire to bicker with you.)
I don’t see why it’s so wrong for a parent to talk about drugs in the worse way so as to discourage drug use. Drugs and alcohol have wreaked horrible damage on millions of people, including people in my own family.
I’m not sure I could be blaśe if I found pot in my kid’s drawer, or if I found out they were puking their guts out at their best friend’s house. And I don’t think I would exactly admire that attitude in someone else. I wouldn’t try to scare my kids unnecessarily, but I sure as hell wouldn’t help them out (however, I think allowing a glass of wine at dinner is different than allowing a beer keg at a slumber party.) If that makes me an uptight goody-goody, I guess that’s what I am.
I see no problem with this ad.