Coming back from the bridge (?) before the 3rd chorus in “I Saw Her Again Last Night” by the Mamas and the Papas, the singer (I’m guessing it’s Denny, but what do I know) starts singing about 4 beats too soon then quits abruptly halfway through the word “her.”
Does anyone know if this is the “oops, lost count” goof it sounds like?
I really know next to nothing about the group (Michelle’s fine, the ham sandwich story … um, that’s about it), but I’m guessing that a devotee would be as familiar with this as I am with things like Prince’s acrimonious relationship with Andre Cymone, so I’m hoping this will be a simple question for the right person to answer.
Oooh, second question, same song: there’s about 8 notes of the melody that sound like their directly lifted from a Beatle’s song but I can’t ever keep in my head long enough to figure out which one. Any thoughts? It’s the notes that the words “but what can I do, I’m lonely too.”
Yes, that’s Denny. I have always thought that it was a mistake, because they’re singing to the pre-recorded backing track and at that spot, the band takes an extra measure to go back to the verse, unlike the other times in the song where it comes to that point.
I’m just supposing here, as I’ve never seen any reference to why it’s there…Anyone have John’s book?
The number of tracks they had available to record on may have prohibited them from redoing it. That was likely the best take of what may have been many takes, and rather than try to punch in or redo the track all over again, they probably just left it in. You’d think that during mixing, the engineer could have muted that track for that one section, but maybe not. We may never know. But there’s my idea of why it’s there on the finished master.
The U.S. industry standard by 1965 was four-track recording; and by 1967, eight-track. “I Saw Her Again” was released in the summer of 1966, so was probably recorded on four-track. It should have been easy to mix out Denny’s goof from the vocal track, so I’m puzzled why they didn’t. Maybe they just liked the sound of it.
In fact, re-hearing the song, I notice that the “goof” (at 2:42) is mixed to the right, while the subsequent “correct” male vocals (2:44) are mixed to the left. Further makes me think that however accidental it might have been, it was kept on purpose.
Maybe they didn’t care. This was before the time of perfectionism. If you listen closely, there are tons of flubs on early Dylan songs. This might have been the tenth take, and the only one they got through without flubbing it totally, so they might have decided it was good enough.
I used to think that recording sessions went for perfection, but then I read books of the details of the Beatles and Dylan sessions, and I learned better. For instance, that odd start for Her Majesty on Abbey Road was because some technician cut it wrong.
I doubt there is any such book for Mamas and Papas recording sessions, though.
You’re right. Every one of The Beatles’ records are based on the one take where they didn’t fuck it up. After they did the overdubs on the one good take, they never played it again (after the concert tours were over).
At the end of the Bee Gees’ I’ve Gotta Get a Message to You, they go up a step in key, and on the “hold on, hold on” high backing vox, (I think it’s Barry) hits the note rather badly and goes “ohhh!” right after, kind of like you would say “Oh, shit!”, except without the “shit!” .
It didn’t dawn on me until this weekend that I’ve had this question every time I’ve heard that song for my entire life, so I knew I finally had to ask someone, and who better than the Dope?
If you listen to the Beatles’ song “A Hard Day’s Night”, after the first four lines there are two lines with the lyrics “But when I get home to you, I find the things that you do”. The notes of these lines (which are repeated a few times throughout the song) sound to me very similar to the ones you’re referring to in “I Saw Her Again Last Night”. There are differing numbers of notes between the two songs, but the melodic progression sounds the same.
That wouldn’t surprise me. A few years ago I was reading a book on the history of the Beatles and influence they had on music.
They mentioned the Mamas and Papas and talked about how John Phillips was struggling with the whole idea that music taste was moving away from his “wheelhouse” of folk and into rock.
The book quoted some interview with Phillips as saying that he put on his headphones, got stoned out of his head and then put the Beatles latest album on repeat and listened to it for hours. He said he then came out and immediately wrote the songs for “If You Can Believe Your Eyes and Ears” deliberately patterning the chords and melodies and vocal styles after the Beatles.
Can’t say that it’s actually true, reading it in a book on the Beatles doesn’t really mean anything, but it wouldn’t surprise me.
The story goes that Cass Elliot wanted to be in the group that John Phillips was forming (which would become The Mamas and the Papas), but he wouldn’t let her, because she couldn’t sing high enough. Then, she was in an accident in which she was hit in the head by a pipe, and suffered a concussion. Once she recovered, she could hit the high notes, and John hired her.
However, it’s generally believed that Phillips’ reluctance to bring her into the group was because she was fat. The pipe story was apparently conconcted after the group bcame successful, to cover up Phillips’ real reasoning.
You referring to the “pins-ah” (which they rhyme with “begins-ah”) or is there indeed a big flub?
I’ve always been intrigued by musical mistakes. Started when I heard Van Morrison turn a page of sheet music in Slim Slo Slider… but Denny’s is the biggest, and leaving it in was bold.
