Yes, yes, Christmas is the time of year when everybody of all religions can come together to celebrate the birth of Christ. . Even non-religious folks celebrate the birth of Christ, for Christ’s sake! I don’t get why everybody is so uptight about receiving Christian-themed cards from people who should know better
Why? Is it just because you don’t know what it means or is there a deeper reason?
I don’t think there is anything wrong with the cards in the OP, though I can’t imagine anybody actually sending them to friends and family. Or rather, I can’t imagine a scenerio where I would use them.
A friend of mine who divorced nearly 20 years ago went to them, as she had learned that her young (newly EX) husband had been cheating on her. She had no money, and she just wanted to know if she had any STDs. Well, when she got done with the appointment, they asked her to take birth control pills. She was so mad at men that the last thing on her mind was birth control. Well, they said, she would have to pay for her visit. But, if she just took some condoms with her, the visit would be free. Now, is that coercing sexual looseness or what?.. I digress…
Maybe he can at least drop Federal support of Planned Parenthood and let grown up men and women make their own decisions about birth control and find their own means to pay for them. I can’t think of an area of personal decision making that the government should be less likely to intrude in than our reproductive behaviour.
They should never have made birth control information illegal as it was 200 years ago and they should not push an agendized pro-abortion/pro-swinging view on us now.
Planned Parenthood has an agenda that not only includes family planning and birth control. It includes a preference for sex without relationships. Sex as recreation. But, even if it were only that Planned Parenthood were in favor of population control, I still would not want the government meddling in this very personal decision. But, the government is just as silly in PP as it is with tobacco. We subsidize the farmers to grow tobacco and then tell people not to smoke it. We pay Planned Parenthood to keep people from having babies. Then we pay people with tax deductions and welfare to have more babies.
So, even if they spend part of the money they get from my taxes to reduce out-of-wedlock births, it is not a good exercise of the proper functions of government.
You could also go to the Library and check out the classic on the subject from about 1980, The Politics of Jesus, by John Howard Yoder. It has been a long time since I read it, but I am pretty sure it goes into all the details of Pharisees and Saducees (perhaps as listed by FriarTed above), but I am sure his conclussion is that Jesus was neither liberal nor conservative, but radical. You could also contrast him to the Zealots party who were selfish radicals, while he was a selfless radical.
Thanks to those several of you who welcomed me as a newbie.
My brain feels so rusty. I have not engaged in this sort of discussion in years and years. Anyone hear the clanking, grinding, squeeling noises of my old brain, please excuse the cacophony.
Regarding the question of how so many conservative Christians seem to go lockstep with those who are politically conservative off into a war fever:
Gallup did a poll among born again Christians 20 years ago when Falwell and the Christian Coalition first formed. He found that they were indeed more politically conservative, as a group, than the general population of the US. But, he also found out that this was true especially of those who were just Sunday morning pew warmers. Those who came to church twice or three times a week were actually more likely to vote liberal than the average non-believer.
Personally, I think we are currently spending double or quadruple what we ought to be on defense. On the other hand, almost all of the non-defense government is spending is on things the family, churches, and other organizations should be doing (welfare, education, support of the elderly, hospitals).
Boxer:Well, they said, she would have to pay for her visit. But, if she just took some condoms with her, the visit would be free. Now, is that coercing sexual looseness or what?
No, it’s coercing condom possession. Isn’t it kind of old-fashioned to think that “owning birth control devices” = “being sexually loose”? PP isn’t saying “Here, take these free condoms so you can go out and get laid, woohoo!” It’s saying “Please hang onto these free condoms in case you should decide to get laid (or who knows, even encounter a rapist, some rapists can in fact be persuaded to wear a condom) and don’t have ready access to protection.”
Maybe he can at least drop Federal support of Planned Parenthood and let grown up men and women make their own decisions about birth control and find their own means to pay for them.
I don’t see why the government should not support an organization that gives people information and assistance about their reproductive choices. (It gives plenty of money to pro-abstinence “teaching chastity” sex-ed programs in schools, for example.) Human reproduction is one of the most important issues for all human beings to understand and deal with, whether or not they can afford to pay a fee.
[Added in preview: I see from your later post that you also think the government has no business funding food or housing, education, retirement pensions, or medical treatment, so at least no one can call you inconsistent! You apparently don’t want government funding involved in any human-needs issues, not just reproductive ones.]
Planned Parenthood has an agenda that not only includes family planning and birth control. It includes a preference for sex without relationships. Sex as recreation.
Got a cite for that? I can’t find anything of the sort in their mission statement:
Count me as another vote for offensive. It’s at the very least obnoxious and insensitive to drag controversial politics into a religious holiday. A pro-life Xmas card would bother me too, though probably not quite as much.
ElJeffe, I agree with you that there’s something very disturbing about using a baby as a signboard for a pro-choice message. Isn’t it at least equally as creepy for the message to be attached to a holiday that’s all about a baby being born to a poor, unwed teenager?
c_carol:Isn’t it at least equally as creepy for the message to be attached to a holiday that’s all about a baby being born to a poor, unwed teenager?
IMHO, not at all. The “pro-choice message” is not that a poor, unwed teenager should not be allowed to have a baby, it’s that she shouldn’t have to have one if she doesn’t want to—and neither should any other woman. Even if she’s already pregnant.
It is, however, creepy to use baby clothes as a signboard for any political message. Pick on someone your own size, and let your kid grow up and select his or her own T-shirt slogans.
Kimstu, right, I do understand that. My point was just that I think it’s highly inappropriate to push pro-choice opinions in certain circumstances. F’r example, would you send somebody a “Congratulations on the New Baby” card that mentioned Choice? The pro-choice Christmas card bothers me not only because it seems disrespectful to my religion, but also for much the same reason that a pro-choice baby shower card would. Does that make any sense?
Hmmm … real snowflakes have 6 points. Didja notice how all the snowflakes on Planned Parenthood’s holiday card have 8 points?
In fact, they look just like the symbol for “Chaos” in the Michael Moorcock fantasy universe. Aha! I knew it! Planned Parenthood is trying to get everybody to worship Arioch! Beware the sting of Stormbringer!
c_c:My point was just that I think it’s highly inappropriate to push pro-choice opinions in certain circumstances. F’r example, would you send somebody a “Congratulations on the New Baby” card that mentioned Choice? The pro-choice Christmas card bothers me not only because it seems disrespectful to my religion, but also for much the same reason that a pro-choice baby shower card would. Does that make any sense?
Yes, but only in the context of its being highly inappropriate to push any political opinions in certain circumstances, like holiday cards. Greetings about peace and good will should be as uncontroversial as possible, but I don’t see “choice” as being any more inappropriate than any other political topic in this context.
Yes, it would be inappropriate to give a pro-choice baby shower card (someone might think you meant it as a sign they should have aborted the baby in question). But it is no more appropriate than to give a pro-life shower card. Imagine if the woman in question had a previous pregnancy end in abortion that you didn’t know about!
In general, well wishes should be given as well wishes - without pushing ANY agenda.
Bull. I’ve been in their clinics, although not for abortion services (routine gyno care, which is a large part of what they do, and often for free or on a sliding scale for women who can’t afford anything else…I had no insurance at the time). My sister has been there, for an abortion. There are adoption and abstinence materials all over the place, and before they perform an abortion, they provide extensive counseling on ALL options.
What they don’t do is judge the choice a woman makes, or misrepresent their motivvations to their clientele.
“Choice on Earth” is very obviously a parody of the Christian Christmas phrase “Peace on Earth”, which makes it hard to consider it a generic holiday card, IMHO.
c_c:“Choice on Earth” is very obviously a parody of the Christian Christmas phrase “Peace on Earth”, which makes it hard to consider it a generic holiday card, IMHO.
Well, lots of generic holiday cards use the phrase “peace on earth” or some variant of it. The inside message on the PP card says merely “Warmest wishes for a peaceful holiday season”, so I don’t think you can really call it a “Christmas” card.
Dunno if that’s true, but it’s hard to understand why this card is suddenly getting so much attention if it’s been on the market for nearly ten years. (So there really are people who actually buy and send political holiday cards? Who are these folks? Did you ever get one? I never even heard of these cards before this thread, and I’m a pro-choice liberal feminist, just the sort of person you’d think my pro-choice liberal feminist friends would feel fine about sending a pro-choice card to. Maybe we’ve all just got good taste. :))