Planning a trip to Spain and Portugal

In My Humble Opinion
1

As per this thread I might be interested in moving to Spain or Portugal, so I’m booking a trip to check them out to see how I feel about them. So it will be part vacation, part scouting trip. The time table is flexible but I’m expecting to spend maybe 3 weeks there, which could be extended a week or two. I will be arriving around Apr 20.

Things I like: natural beauty, particularly with water. Beaches. Scenic road trips. Trying new foods. Bar hopping. Walkable city centers and commercial districts, places with lots of restaurants/shops/bars/cultural things. Sometimes cultural things like museums and historical sites, but it has to catch my interest. Any sort of festivals.

Not so much: anywhere with big crowds, dense cities, places where I’m always on guard for pickpockets or other petty crime, street merchants coming on strong and being hard to get rid of. Places where they’re more resentful than pleasant towards tourists.

Most of my trip will be spent on the Med coast of Spain and Portugal. I will rent a car for at least half of it so that I can do a road trip along the coast, stop wherever I want, explore easily. I will probably start in Barcelona and go north to explore the coast there, and at some point turn around and head west. I plan on staying in coastal cities like Valencia, Alicante, Cartagena, Almeria, Malaga, Marbella, Cardiz, Faro. Maybe multiple days for some of those. Small towns are good too, I’m just not familiar with any of them. Originally I thought I’d end my trip in Lisbon and fly home from there, but a friend told me Porto is much nicer and I should make sure to see it, so I may go that far north.

I speak decent enough Spanish to get around. I’d have no problem getting a cab to go somewhere (what’s the best way to get around there, when I don’t have a car? cabs? uber?), ordering at restaurants, etc. I don’t speak any Portuguese but they’re more likely to speak English there. Maybe it’d be good to be aware of British and American expat areas so that I can sometimes have an easier conversation with people.

I’m taking a transatlantic repositioning cruise to get there. They’re quite cheap and I thought it sounded more fun to spend 14 days on a ship than 14 hours in a plane. I missed booking out on a great one that departed in Barcelona and instead I had to take an alternate that lands in London. I’m not thrilled about that. I’ve never had much interest in visiting England and while I understand London is a very cool and historic city, I’ve just never really cared about it. Still, if I’m going to be there, it feels like I have to spend at least a couple of days there or it’ll be a waste.

I thought maybe I should take the train from London to Paris, then Paris to Madrid, but I’m not sure I’d actually like to do anything in Paris. A lot of people who were really excited to go to Paris have told me that it’s not worth it. But even though I don’t like big cities in general, I do kind of want to see Madrid. I have a hard time explaining why London and Paris don’t really interest me but Madrid does. It seems like it has a cooler vibe.

So currently I’m thinking I will stay in London a couple of days, fly to Madrid, stay for a few days, take the train to Barcelona, rent a car, and then drive up and down the coast all the way to Lisbon or maybe Porto. I’d consider a day trip to an island like the Balearic islands or Sardinia or maybe Madeira.

I’m a little concerned about renting a car – sometimes car companies will let you pick up a car at one spot and drop it off at another, for an extra fee. But I’m guessing renting in Barcelona and dropping off at Lisbon would be quite expensive, so maybe I’ll drop off a car at some point (like Seville), take a train or bus across the border, rent a car in Portugal.

I’m open to any kind of advice. Things to see, places to stay, food to try, how to travel (whether to use trains for example). Where should I spend less time, and where more? Should I go out of my way to see something that’s not in my current plans? Even more general advice like what should I be looking for to figure out if it’s somewhere I’d like to move to would be good.

2

Ok, that’s a lot to unpack but I’ll tell you a bit about my experience in Spain (last there in April 2022.) In no particular order of importance…

  • When you’re in the Barcelona area I highly recommend a quick visit to Montserrat. The monastery built up in the mountains is pretty cool, and the view is amazing.
  • The train and bus systems are pretty good. High speed rail is available between a number of major cities/towns.
  • If you’re in Madrid, a quick day trip to Toledo or Segovia is worthwhile (I especially love Toledo, but it does get a ton of tourists.)
  • The driving times between some of the coastal towns might be a bit more than you think, especially in the hilly areas in the southeast.
  • For trying different foods look for a market (like Mercado de San Miguel in Madrid.)
  • I haven’t been to the south coast in years, but I remember taking a detour to Gibraltar, which was kind of cool (seeing Africa across the water and the friendly monkees.)
3

This. Lisbon is not a city I would care to spend more than a couple days in, and that would be mostly side trips to places like Sintra (for the history) and Cascais (for the beaches). The food, sights, and just the general vibe of Porto is better. And the drive from Lisbon to Porto has some great stops; Peniche, Nazare (a “small day” in winter is still 25 foot waves), Figueira da Foz. It’s a wild and windy coast and lots of fun. It reminds me of our beaches in California, but less crowded. I could retire on that coast. Most expats prefer the Faro district on the south coast though; it’s sunnier but a lot less “Portuguese”, if you get my meaning. There are a lot of cookie cutter towns full of condos with a rather sterile culture. But the beaches are really nice.

ETA: A quick note about the toll roads in Portugal: They are affordable for a tourist, have little traffic, and can get you quickly from one end of the country to the other. BUT, they don’t run through areas or towns that are particularly interesting. If you stick to the toll roads you are missing A LOT.

4

I’m going to be in the Algarve in late May/June, staying near Faro and Tavira, so I hope you’ll post back here about your experience on the south Portuguese coast :slight_smile:

This was very much my experience with Lisbon last year - crowded, dense, and touristy. Which is not to say that it was not enjoyable, but it sounds like not what you’re seeking. I recommend Sintra instead - just a bit to the NW of Lisbon but a totally different experience - you could easily stop there on your way to Porto from the south coast.

5

Went to Barcelona awhile back, it was fun. Walkable city. I don’t remember much specifics. Big into Gin & Tonics, and the tonic seemed more important than the gin.

I’d go to a nice restaurant for paella, or you’ll run the risk of getting premade touristy stuff and thinking it’s not good.

I’m going to Valencia and Madrid this summer so I’ll be following this thread too.

6

That’s the only part of Spain I have visited, and we really enjoyed it. Barcelona doesn’t need much hype, other than to say get visit La Rambla but don’t eat or drink there. Go just one block/street over and the quality goes up while the prices go down. And I’ll second the recommendation to visit Montserrat for a hike and a visit to the Abbey.

North of Barcelona we enjoyed Girona, a lovely medival walled city and some of the filming locations for Game of Thrones. Begur was a lovely hilltop town. And Roses, while built up, was mostly filled with French and other European tourists, nary another American to be seen or heard. Our final stop was around Cadaqués visiting the Dali sites and enjoying the scenery.

In Barcelona we used the subway, busses, and cab once. We had no problems renting a car and driving around the Costa Brava, but parking is always something to keep an eye on. London and Paris are amazing cities, but if your purpose of this trip to see Spain and Portugal you might not want the distraction. Most folks who I’ve talked to say Madrid itself isn’t that exciting, not like Barcelona.

While conversational Spanish will probably suffice everywhere, keep in mind that in many regions of Spain there is a local language and culture. Be aware that many around Barcelona consider themselves Catalan and not Spanish. I assume the same is true in other regions of Spain, especially in Basque country.

7

Good advice. There are a lot of great places to visit in Portugal, like the Douro Valley wine district and old hilltop walled towns like Obidos. We lived in Lisbon because we were attached to the embassy, but we traveled all over the country in our spare time. Lisbon was okay, but that was back in the 90s. Short trips to Belem Castle and Geronimos are good, and visiting the old town of Alfama is fun. But the traffic was awful even back then and is likely much worse now. Luckily, there are trams going to most places. I can’t recommend the red wine highly enough and of course the Port.

There are a lot of expats in the Algarve and in southern Portugal in general. We have friends who emigrated there and they love it. Travel to most other parts of Europe are very easy, either by car or train.

I think English is far more common now than it was when I lived there. Some people think that if they speak Spanish, then Portuguese should be easy to learn. I can tell you that that’s not the case, and there is no love lost between the two countries.

As for Spain, we took a trip from Lisbon to Madrid in the early 90s and enjoyed ourselves. We took a side trip to Toledo. I was deployed to southern Spain in the 80s and visited a lot of the areas in Andalucia. Seville is impressive, especially the cathedral, and there are a lot of picturesque villages along the roads of the area. I especially liked Torremolinos on the coast, and the town of Ronda is a must-see.

8

That’s my favorite place in Spain. I think that is where I would stay for six months, if I ever decided to write a novel

9

That bridge is an inspiration, for sure.

10

Car rental is shockingly cheap so I wonder if I’m missing something. I originally looked up picking up in Barcelona and dropping off in Lisbon over 3 weeks. The cheapest economy cars were around $1300 and that seemed perfectly reasonable to me, about $60/day. But just to see, I looked up what the same time period would cost if I rented in Barcelona and returned in Barcelona. The cheaper cars were $400! That’s only $20 a day. Can you really rent a normal compact like a Ford Fiesta or Toyota Yaris for $20/day? If I pick up in Barcelona and drop off in Seville, that’s only an extra $150 or so over returning to Barcelona. So maybe I’ll take a road trip around the coast, turn the car in in Seville, take a train into Portugal, and rent another car in Algarve or Lisbon for some significant savings.

11

Ahh, this reminded me of something. Rentals are cheap. We took a day trip and I rented BMW convertible and it was pretty cheap. Saw Roman aqueducts and theaters, etc.

For perspective, I would never nor have I ever rented a car like that before. But it was just SO cheap.

Re the aqueduct. It’s amazing and very tall. Just randomly off the side of the highway. Nobody there. Walk right up to it and climb on it.

12

Spaniard here. Car rentals in Spain can be that cheap, especially if you reserve well in advance and keep the car for a long time.

HOWEVER!!!

The immense majority of the available cars will have manual transmission and if you want an automatic you will pay a premium.

Do you know how to drive manual? Because otherwise it may be harder (and more expensive) to find a car you can drive.

ETA: If you have any concrete questions about Spain, I will be glad to answer them.

13

Word of warning, born from experience. Avoid the small ‘local’ rental companies that appear cheaper than the mainstream known brands - I’ve been stung a couple of times with very suspect car inspections that have claimed damage/scratches which were 100% not of my making. A problem I’ve never had with the likes of Sixt, Avis, Hertz and the like.

14

As noted before by @Southern_Yankee there’s quite a lot to unpack here.

First, some details about me, so you know my biases and background.

I’m Swedish. I met a nice señorita on vacation in the early 90’s and moved there. Spain has changed a lot in the 30 years since I moved back home, but I tend to visit as often as I can and I’m in fact popping down on Monday (3/31) for a 10 day de-thawing (mentally).
I love Spain, I love the people, I love the food, I love the culture. And yes, I learned the language quite well, but with only short visits every now and then, it gets a bit rusty. I mean, knowing the words is one thing, but context is everything.

Also, I despise Catalans. This is due to me having spent most of my time in AndalucÍa, and all my encounters with them have been marked by their Catalunyan Exceptionalism, e.g. “We’re not Spanish, we’re Europeans, not like you backwards rednecks from the peninsula.” Enough of my gripes.

Don’t.
Seriously, don’t even think about it. The French trains (TGV) are second only to Japan, but European rail is not very well integrated. It’s a nightmare to get tickts, and on top of that, Spain has a different gauge on its rails, so you will have to change at the border (last timne I chacked).
There are so many dirty cheap flights from London to various locations in Spain.
Don’t take the train.

That’s is going to be quite ardous for a three week trip. I can see that from a U.S. perspective, looking at a map, it makes sense. In reality though, not so much. I’ve driven along the Med coast quite a few times and it’s not very fun. The expressways are very good, but boring. Some stretches are essentially one way, which means doubling back. And note this:

You CANNOT drive from Cadiz to Portugal along the coast. That’s not hyperbole, check the map. There’s a national park and there are no roads. You have to go up north and inland, if you want to drive from to southern end of Spain to Portugal.

For a stay such as your, I’d pick a zone, use public transportation and a rental and then skip to the next zone by high speed train or flight.

Car rental

Counterpoint: The international chains are quite a lot more expensive, especially if you plan to rent in one place and leave in another, which BTW, the local places rarely offer (see above about dividing it up in zones).
@SanVito has a point about being ripped off. I always go to the same place, which I trust. But for an unknown rental agency (i.e. another location), I always make a point of going around the car.taking picture, and I make sure they see me doing thatl.

As for pricing. Being the 2nd most popular destination in the world, they have an enormous over capacity during low and off-season. Using an international chain during peak season (Jully+August) will not be cheap.

And while I’m writing about transportation. Larger metro areas (Barcelona, Valencia, Málaga) have excellent public transport. Smaller places will have good, but sometimes erratric ways to go. Always check cab prices before getting in. They should have a visible sticker outside, informing you about the costs. I’ve never taken an Uber in Spain, So I can’t inform you on that.

You said part is vacation, part scouting. For the vacation thing, you’re going to do tourtisty stuff. That also means crowds, big crowds. Spain is the second most popular tourist destination in the world (85M), after (no surprise) France (100M). By all means, go to Barcelona (despite my dislike) and see Sagrada Familia.

Barcelona

Natives of Barcelona avoid La Rambla. They feel it’s too swamped, inundated even, with tourists. Pick pockets, mimes, hustlers and I think quite a large contingency from Sub Saharan Africa trying to sell “Rolex” and “Ray-Ban”, ready to take flight at a moments notice when cops are around.1
As for the G&T - this is a mark of you being ripped off. The standard in Spain is a high ball glass, to ice cubes, filling up half the glass with gin and adding a dash of tonic.

Gibraltar

I hope you are being sarcastic. The damned monkeys are assholes, and they will gladly show it to you. There4 are basically two ways to see the monkeys: cab or cable car. Cabs are expensive.
As for Gib in general: whenever I go down with a friend, they will inevitably want to go to Gibraltar. I always give in, even though I also know that they will be disappointed. People expect a little bit of England on the Med. It’s not. Go there to see the rock (which is not really visible when in town) and the damned simians, and when you leave, you’re going to be quite happy to do so. DO NOT DRIVE ACROSS THE BORDER. Walk in and take a bus. Gib is small, crowded and will test your patience with its traffic.

Ronda

They have turnstiles to limit the amount of people on the bridge. It’s beautiful, but quite a long drive from the coast on narrow mountain roads (about an hour) and the only time I’d visit is off-off season, i.e. January.

Restaurants

Counterpoint: Don’t. You’re going to be charged an arm, a leg and a vital organ for what is basically fried riced. If you want paella, you should try it in Valencia, its purported home. When I get a hankering, I go to a chriringuito, (beach “greasy spoon”) where it’s cheap and often better.

Don’t order “international cuisine.” It’s not something they do well2. But if you’re into fish and seafood, you’re in for a treat. The locals love their fish and Spain has the largest fishing fleet in the EU. Find a place where they serve a freidura, which is a big plate of an assortment of fish, either grilled (a la parilla) or deep fried. Heavenly.

Finally, wether and climate:

Californians I know like to compare the Spanish coast on the Med with their home state. North (Barcelona) is somewhat like the Bay area (but with slightly hotter summers) and south (Málaga) is more like SoCal. Málaga has - on average - 340 sunny, cloud free days a year. Afternoon temps in January are in the low 70’s (F).

Portugal: ISTM that Americans have taken a shine to Portugal. I’ve never been there, but I hear it’s nice. From reliable reports, it’s a lot less developed than Spain, and it’s not on the Med, so notably chillier during winter months.

Everyone I know who’s been to Portugal say that one should give Lisbon a cursory visit to see the sights, but to explore Porto.

1They always spread out their goods on a roughly 3x3 ft piece of cloth, with twines tied to all corners, so they can just yank it all with one tug and be gone at a moments notice. Many of them are being ecploited in a horrible way.
2Apart from their Micheline 3 star restaurants, which are among the best in the world, I’m told. But the prices match…

15

I loved Lisbon. but I guess we’re all different. For one, I love energetic, vibrant capitals with exciting contemporary food scenes. It sounds like the OP isn’t so keen (on the city thing, I’m sure they’d love the food).

16

Sounds the attitude of some Scots attitude towards the English :joy: I jest. Also, I have but one proper Spanish friend, who happens to be Catalan, and doesn’t get remotely upset at being called or asked to speak Spanish. I think she’s find the rivalry a bit eye-rolling. So there’s that.

17

This has to be a more recent phenomenon than when we lived there. The food scene then was dreadful unless you really liked bacalhau (I don’t). At one point in our two years there we took a two week vacation to Italy for a food break. It’s great that they have finally joined the present instead of living in the past.

18

For sure, Lisbon has a fantastic contemporary food scene. My concern with visiting Porto is that it might be less developed in this regard, but I could be wrong about that.

19

My explanation was poorly worded. I just meant the choice of tonic seemed more important. I’ve never been presented with 10 choices of bottled tonic before. It’s was cool.

No doubt I was also likely ripped off.

Appreciate your entire post. I’m going to use it when I go back. Thanks.

20

My experience two years ago is just the opposite. Granted, based on less than a week’s stay in each. Porto is also a cleaner city than Lisbon and the architecture more diverse.