Plate Armor vs. Grizzly Attack

Great answer - the fact is a big weapon requires two arms and some balance to operate - a bear taking out any appendage would likely be the victor. The human in armor would have to rely on his skill with the weapon. Joe Dude with a halberd is not a threat to anyone, but a bear has been using those claws all his life.

So I guess it would come down to skill with the halberd - if you have the skill, the armor becomes less and less relevant but still handy in case of emergency. If you don’t have the skill, all the armor in the world ain’t gonna save you, unless you get lucky.

Also, nobody mentioned how many hit dice the bear has, what level you are, if Gorbong the Cleric cast “Prayer” earlier in the round, etc.

The Black Knight would kick the bear’s ass.

Maybe we could get the bear to wear armor. Then it would get tough.

Would the bear simply be able to crush the armor - and you it it? I’m thinking a great wallop to the chest and it doesn’t matter if the armor stays in one piece - if it’s crushed inward, your ribs will crush underneath it and puncture all sorts of interesting vitals.

Not knowing the relative strength of bears and armor, I dunno.

I’ve seen photos of a grizzly in Yellowstone park in the 50’s ripping the doors off of a station wagon to get into it; this was before the park took on a policy of eliminating bears that had become nuisances and before they also took on policies around controlling garbage and such that bears had become dependent on as food sources. I don’t imagine a bear would have much problem tearing into a suit of armor.

I would think a grizzly would easily be able to dent a chest plate enough to flail someone’s rib cage, deflating or penetrating the lungs, and killing them. Probably more dangerous than if a bear swiped at an unarmored human, as human tissues are somewhat resilient to blunt trauma. The armor would focus the injury, I would think.

Remeber that a suit of plate armor is tempered steel, not the flimsy metal of a car door.

I for one, if forced to into this lopsided encounter, would certainly choose ot have armor rather than not. A long, stout, and sharp spear woudl be handy too.

Who would win? I’d place odds on the bear against myself. Against a trained medieval knight… I’d say the odds are atleast five times as good for the knight in that case.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear - this was an adult male grizzly ripping the door off by the hinges, not just tearing the aluminum, and it was the honkin’ big Detroit Rollin’ Iron station wagons they had in the 50s, not some cheap import. Those suckers are STRONG! (bear and car! :))

I’m told-- by someone in a position to know – that any largish bear can muster enough power in a swat to (at best) break your neck, or (at worst) tear your head off, effectively.

The metal might stop the claws. It might even stop the teeth. But I am inclined to think that the impact alone wouldn’t do you a hell of a lot of good, and would certainly hamper your ability to do anything to the bear in return.

Thanks for all the replies! It seems to me that most of you feel that a lone Knight would have little chance against a massive bruin like a grizzly bear. That seems reasonable to me, considering the power of such a creature – I had forgotten about the bear’s penchant for automobile demolition!
By the way – I armed the knight with a halberd because I remember reading that this weapon (wielded by a sufficiently muscular fellow!) was capable of shearing off a horse’s head with one swing! I wonder if that is really true…

Of course, the Dark Knight would win, if he was prepared.

In other words, your head will remain safely armored as it bounces jauntily away from your also armored body. :cool:

Of course-- They’re both 2/2, but the Black Knight is first strike ;).

And I would give a knight excellent odds for surviving the encounter, since knights are mounted, and horses are faster than bears. But he’s still not going to be killing the thing.

Well, I think it depends a lot on what kind of bear attack. The typical grizzly close encounter is not a killing attack but a pre-emptive ‘get out of my face’ charge which isn’t meant to do much more than knock the chargee down and convince them to leave the bear (and cubs) alone. In that case, my opinion is that a suit of good armor could be tremendously useful, as the main goal of an attackee is to cover up vital organs until the bear decides you’ve gotten the message and goes away.

If it’s a seriously hungry polar bear who’s decided that there’s good prey on those two legs, and has significant experience wrenching open metal boxes to get food, then armor probably won’t stop the bear for too long, though it might buy time for a couple more strokes with a sword, which could easliy be enough to convince the bear to give it up for easier prey or even kill it.
Bears are strong, but a knife is a lot sharper than a bear claw and does a lot more damage. Unarmored people have killed bears with knives before.

Dig this:
http://www.wildmanlodge.com/Neil.Bart.jpg

and this:
http://www.fawniemountain.com/gr_ob02.jpg

Oh, and this one’s good too:
http://www.wildmanlodge.com/Neil.paw.jpg

These guys are HUGE. We’re talking up to 10 feet tall and half a ton. Ane they’re intelligent omnivores. Not as intelligent as humans, but at least as smart as a dog.

I’ll let that Troy Jackass play with bear-proof armor, thanks. The guy in Knight’s armor doesn’t stand a chance, especially if he does something stupid like piss the bear off

Meh. . .

Grizzlies tear the doors off of large, stationary hunks of metal. They don’t tear doors off by swiping at them. I can move a refridgerator if I brace myself and shove but I can’t knock one over by backhanding it. Everyone here seems to be imagining a bear prying at a stationary man in a suit of armor. If the man’s stationary, the fight’s already over.

Plate armor over maille, with a gambeson underneath, provides a stunning amount of protection while affording an amazing amount of maneuverability. I’m not saying that a knight could casually dispatch a bear with one hand while chugging a beer and pleasuring his lady besides, but I doubt it’d be the woefully short battle that people have painted so far.

The guy is fighting back, y’know, and a halberd is also capable of inflicting enormous amounts of damage. Imagine the scene in Apocalypse Now where they slaughter the water-buffalo with a machete. Poleaxes have more power and mass behind them than a machete. We aren’t talking about paper cuts here, and I have no trouble believing that with a good swing, one could behead a horse. As a benefit, poleaxes have range on bear arms.

For last-ditch close-in fighting I’d want something like a war-pick in one had and some kind of short-sword in the other. I’m sure that bears are capable of withstanding lots of damage, but a seven inch spike through the skull is a fight-ender.

Assuming that the knight can maintain distance and use his skills to stay alive and look for openings, I think it’d be doable, though failure would be deadly. The knight could not afford to “tank” - that is, wade in swinging and let his armor take the damage.

Given that European nobility regularly hunted bears (and everything else they could find), even without dogs…

They’re actually quite a bit smarter than a dog. In fact, they (black and grizzly/kodiak bears) are probably smarter than any other non-primate land mammal, comparable to the great apes, and are much and unfairly maligned.

I’ve had a couple of encounters with bears, including one “attack”, and I run across them regularly in the San Bernardino and San Gabriel mountains. Black bears (Ursus americanus) are extremely non-confrontational. Even sows with cubs are not aggressive; they’ll scream at the cubs to climb a tree (which is one of the first skills they are taught) and then climb a tree herself or otherwise attempt to draw away a predator. Grizzly bears (Ursus arctos horriblis) and Kodiak bears (U. a. middendorffi) are not much more aggressive. In fact, you can take a cruise where they will land you on the beach, mere feet from grizzlies. Actual bear attacks are extremely rare, and are usually the result of a very old or disabled bear that can’t effectively forage for food. And despite their classification in the order Carnivora, they are (as quoted above) omnivores who’s diet primarily consists of fruits, nuts, grubs, and insects.

As for the OP, if you were silly enough to try to take on a bear, I don’t think plate armor would serve you too well. Bears are not only strong enough to tear doors off of a car, but very clever, extremely good at mechanical problem solving (often avoiding or deliberately setting off traps), and are tenacious when presented with a challenge as any hiker who has seen a bear go after hung food knows. I don’t think the bear would take too long to figure out how to stand on you for leverage and pry away at the joints of your armor, peeling it back like the lid of a sardine can. Even if he gave up, he’d certainly do enough blunt trauma to put the hurt on you good.

But I imagine he’d rather just eat your peanut butter and honey sandwiches. At least, that’s why I’ve found.

Stranger

Is there any hard data on exactly how strong bears are? How about estimates for … well, what measurement would we be looking for regarding the armor?

Giant Growth, sucka!

I grew up in Montana and spent large amounts of time in Grizzly country. We had lessons in Boy Scouts about what grizzlies could do, as well.

Stranger on a Train - those are some fantastic pictures and sites, and thanks for sharing them. I hate the way bear stories get inflated by scaremongers and hollywood, when they’re usually quite easy to be around as long as you know what you’re doing. Fishing in Alaska alongside kodiaks is a memory I will cherish always. You just gotta know the rules - if the bear wants the salmon you just hooked, he gets it! :slight_smile:

Before anyone gets panicked about bears, though, grizzlies attack people ONLY in the following circumstances:

  1. They are surprised. This is why hikers in bear country wear bells and are encouraged to talk when walking on trails and such. This is because what you don’t want to do is walk around a corner and be on top of a grizzly
  2. Female with cubs. A female grizzly defending her cubs could very easily kill you. She will not stop attacking you until you stop moving, and will attack viciously in order to give her cubs time to get away. DO NOT get between a mother and her cubs. This is probably the only time it’s safe to run away from a bear, as well - she will stay with her cubs. Good safety rule - if you see a cub alone (and don’t see it’s momma), freeze, get down on the ground, and stay there! Momma’s around somewhere and she don’t like anybody messing with her kid!
  3. Fighting over food. A hungry bear is likely to attack a human to defend a found food source (like your rucksack) but this is not a predatory attack but more like a ‘leave me alone’ attack. This is why the most dangerous times in bear country are in the early spring and late fall (just after and just before bears hibernate) when they are hugely hungry, and also why you never never keep food in your camp but instead hang it in trees and outside of your rucksack. My ‘bear kit’ hiking rucksack has an outer sack attachment where I put food with a single quick release on it. Bear gets on me, I pop the quick release, he stops to eat my food, I vacate the area.
  4. Old bear desperate for food; might mistake a human for a food source. This is EXTREMELY rare (like never).

In every other circumstance, the bear will vacate the area if he sees, smells, or hears you coming and his sight, hearing, and smell are a damn sight better than yours. It boils down to this - bears attack people very very occasionally, but NEVER eat them.

I would bet an adult grizzly could do exactly that; he could knock a refrigerator flying with a swipe from his paw. These animals are terrifically strong.

Bears are not just big and strong and smart, but they are extremely fast as well. An adult grizzly can charge at up to 40 miles per hour (50 downhill). That’s the danger - a bear attack is as follows:

  1. Try to scare off attacker. Bears are generally non-confrontational. This means standing on their hind legs, roaring, etc.
  2. Charge at attacker, swiping once or twice, will attempt to knock a person down
  3. Once the target is down, the bear will come in an maul the person on the ground, rolling them over and over and biting and pawing at the head and neck
  4. This is generally where the attack ends, if the person is smart enough to play dead. But I would bet that a person in armor would be pretty messed up by this point, especially by the maul attack, as their armor would be dented

Grizzlies have been known to take .44 and .357 mag round to the skull several times without stopping them. I doubt your war pick would do as much penetration damage as a .357 or .44 mag.

From horseback, and in groups, and they didn’t hunt Grizzly or Kodiak bears. European blacks and browns are much like North American blacks and browns - not nearly as tough a nut to crack and far more likely to run away than put up a fight.

Please read **Stranger’s ** description and links - he’s dead on. And I’ve been through enough bear ‘attacks’ when camping in the Rockies that I know he’s right - a bear will come into your camp and try to eat your food (especially when you’re not there) but if you act agressive towards one, they will run away. And Grizzlies, if offered the choice, won’t come anywhere near you in the first place!

One particularly memorable incident when we were camping was my mom, my sister (5), me (8), my brother (10). Dad was out of camp somewhere. A young male black bear came into our camp lured by the food my mom was cooking, and mom drove it out by screaming and throwing sticks and logs and rocks at it. I never saw an animal look as scared as that bear did, and the bear was easily double my mom’s size! :smiley:

Well, hardly ever:

Knew that darn blanket statement would get me in trouble… :smack:

OK, bears hardly ever eat people.