Over in one of the many “why are people atheists” threads over in GD, rjung made this point.
An example oft used that I call “The Ghandi case.”
So, where better to play God. What other non-Christians would a just and loving God grant a place in heaven? Nominate your non-Christians for sainthood here.
I can’t think of a particular person off the top of my head, but I’d say everyone who lived a good life but died without accepting the big JC into their heart (or however it goes).
It doesn’t seem fair to me that god expects you to avoid eternal damnation by converting to Christianity just because some fair-skinned person is preaching about some deity you’ve never heard of.
…who says a non-Christian goes to hell for the sake of being a non-Christian?
Sigh...speaking for the Catholics, the church's official position is roughly that while there is no salvation outside the church, one's religion in life is not determinative of one's salvation. Circumstances (i.e., being raised in another culture) can prevent someone from learning the fullness of God in this life, but it's not a barrier to them from accepting him when they meet in the next. I don't have the Catechism in front of me, but I can look up the official passage when I get home from work.
In short: we don't know the state of anyone's soul, (the exceptions being declared Saints, whom the church investigates to determine if they've made it or not. Different topic). Christians who say Ghandi is *de facto* in hell are missing the point, particularly with respect to that "judge not" thing. Grrr.Why Santa Clause, of course! 
He selflessly brings joy and goodies to all the good little boys and girls all over the world every year at Christmas!
Oh, wait! He’s not dead yet! And he’s not a real person! And he’s just a fairy tale! (since when did any of this ever matter in a discusson of God and religion?)
And why not Mr. Hankey? 
Up-tight, Outta-sight, and in the Groove!
Correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the only way into heaven, according to the Christian Bible (or New Testament or New Covenant), by accepting Jesus as your lord and savior and the whole repenting for one’s sins deal?
“I wanna decide who lives and who dies!”
–Crow T. Robot, on what he wants for Christmas
OK, I had to read the OP about three times before I stopped reading “White people are athiests,” and instead read “Why are people athiests.”
Does this mean I’m going to hell? 
As to the original question… am I allowed to nominate myself?
It’s interesting, really… when my smokin’, drinkin’, cussin’, non-church-going (yet loving, generous, diplomatic, appreciative, kind, and happy) dad died, I was at the airport with my sister, waiting to pick someone up who was flying in for the funeral. I can’t remember what exactly she said (something like, “It’s too bad he couldn’t have been in the same place with Grandma…”), but it hit me like a ton of bricks that she (and probably the rest of my churchy family) thought Dear Old Dad was in Hell! :eek:
The thought had never occurred to me.
But at that moment, I started wondering HOW in the hell one’s beliefs could offer them comfort in the face of the death of a loved one, when in some cases, one was picturing said loved one engulfed in eternal flames???
Turns out, though, that the idea of Heaven isn’t much comfort, either; when my extremely pious brother died, everyone tried to comfort my mother by saying, “Well, at least you know that he’s in Heaven.”
My mother’s response? “I don’t care–I want him here with ME.”
It’s a no-win, man. 
Some rather vocal fundamenalist Christians, unfortunately.
I’ve heard variations of that explained as “God will accept you if you lived a good life without having heard of Him and His message of salvation, but if you do hear of God and Jesus and turn away, then you are doomed.” Which, to me, implies that the smart thing to do is to shoot the missionaries on sight.
As for the OP, I’d nominate the Chinese philosopher Lao-Tzu (founder of Taoism), Albert Einstein (who did not believe in a Judeo-Chriistian god, despite what some folks would claim), and Orson Welles – I don’t know if he was a Christian or not, but anyone as big as he was, and whose last movie role was playing a planet, deserves some compensation.
Oh yeah, and for the record, [Santa Claus](http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/11063b.htm) is in heaven.
I second Orson Welles…damn near scared me to death when I saw that movie in my tender young years.:eek:
I think that Jesus would deserve a spot in heaven, though he would not fit within the criteria of a “Christian” as most “Christian” fundamentalists would define that term. If someone did the things that Jesus did and taught the things that Jesus taught, you know the fundamentalists would want to condemn such a person to hell. :eek:
Also, all the members of XTC would go to heaven. I would nominate Partridge, Moulding, Gregory, et.al. because their songs emphasize:
Here it is; Catechism of the Catholic Church, section 847:
As rjung humorously alluded to, the “going to Hell 'cause you’re not Christian” thing applies only to people who believe the facts of the faith, but choose not to participate in them (read: Satan). In other words, if I as a believeing Catholic decide to say “Ah, fuck it” and defy my faith in light of what I know, I’m in trouble. I’d seriously doubt the rule applies to, say, your average wiccan-on-the-street who gets a Jack Chick tract shoved in his face, gets pissed off at the Christians and decides not to have anything to do with it.
NOW can we get over the “God condemns non-Christians to Hell” debate?
Why would a non-Christian want to go to a Christian heaven? They got better popcorn or something?
Philosocrates, very well put. But somehow I see “Partsy” in particular as roaming the chalk hills as a free spirit, rather than running amok around Heaven, chaffing under his contractual obligations re. seemly behavior, and going through an endless string of drummers, guitarists, managers, and record labels. [Even in Heaven, artist management is a bitch.] Besides, if he was stuck in Heaven, you know that the, say, fifteenth time a fan tugs his shirt sleeve and asks if he’s FINALLY over his stage fright will cause Andy to just lose it.
And re. the OP: I nominate Chiune Sugihara, the Japanese diplomat who saved thousands of Jews during WWII – and interpolating himself into what to him must have been a most bewildering and confounding Judeo-“Christian” matter.
Not to imply that only the greatest heroes deserve a heavenly reward. If there should be a heaven, I’d prefer a mellow, up-with-people bouncer rather than a Pearly-Gates-cum-Studio-54-in-its-heyday-velvet-rope-fascists, if you know what I mean. (Actually, I don’t think most of us deserve any sort of afterlife at all, positive or negative, and are not psychologically prepared to deal with the ramifications of eternal consciousness, but that would be a MAJOR thread hijack.)
So, either Sugihara gets in, or I won’t bother to show, either.
IANAC but I thought the idea was that Jesus suffered on the cross everythying owing to anyone who sins, to balance justice and mercy. So he’s ALREADY done hell. 20 billion times.
IANAC but I thought the idea was that Jesus suffered on the cross everythying owing to anyone who sins, to balance justice and mercy. So he’s ALREADY done hell. 20 billion times.
I nominate Cecil. (Though I have no idea what religion he is) I just can’t see spending eternity without the SD!
This seems to me to mean those people who believe in God, but don’t live a Christian life will go to hell. Where does this leave those people that have lived a good and moral life, have heard of God but don’t believe? They haven’t ‘taken JC into their hearts’, but they certainly haven’t rejected him.
As I’ve always understood it, unless you actually ask Jesus to come into your life and are a practicing Christian, you ain’t going to Heaven.
Everybody goes to Heaven. We’ll sort it out later.