Playing God

As I’ve watched the news as of late I’ve ntoiced a growing trend. Three is a lto of mention abotu human genetics. I remeber an article abtou a chimp Named ANDI that can glow in the dark…due to genetic altering. I also remeber me tellign my companions that the next step is humans. Sure enough I read in the news today that the House of Lords has Okayed the cloneing of enbryos witin 14 days of life. This is only the start folks, more is to come. Our worls will soon be wrapped in a Cold War esk race over human genetics. The Basic laws of nature will be forgotten in our hurry to be the first, and the very thing that keeps us human will be toyed with. I am scared of the times to come, and I wait and hope I’m proven so very very wrong. I welcome any thoughts on this matter…thats why I’m posting it.

Er, what are these “basic laws of nature,” exactly?

Maxx:

Please tell me that’s not intentional.

Are you aware that your post is almost incomprehensible?

One of those would be tampering with the cycle of life…probaby one of the most basic yet most important.

So…one of the laws of nature is “Tampering with the cycle of life”? Something tells me that if nature has laws, they are complete sentences.

My keyboard is messed…and being dyslexic doesn;t help…so pardon the typos and stuck space bar…My intention in this post was to be picked apart with my wording…or my grammer…I wanted to hear others thoughts. Thats it.

Oh. So, like agriculture? Hunting? Herding? Medicine?

I was resonding to an article about cloning embryos, for medicinal purposes…my concern is …does it stop there?

Forgive my inquiry, but this dyslexia affects your hand eye coordination?

BTW: Welcome to the board.

I see no real problems with cloning humans. Identical twins are natural clones, and so far they haven’t caused any problems. I say clone away…

More of me could only be a good thing.

forgiven :slight_smile: … As a matter a fact thats where its the most obvious for me. I can actually reread my post and see it corectly…when its actually not…I don’t typically reread something I post more than once or twice…and if I don;t see any errors I post it…sometimes in a large post like the first one (or an large e-mail)…it becomes evident that I missed a lot. I would have to read it back word for word once or twice to have it correct.

Granted twins are natural clones…but by natural you mean born a live birth and not from a petri (spelling?) dish. Thats what I’m saying is where we are headed…and its scary. Does anyone see a realtion to the book “Brave New World” by Aldous Huxley?..thats the image I’m getting when I think about this.

and twins not cause problems?..you don’t know the ones I do :slight_smile:

Well, these clones won’t be grown whole out of petri dishes without being implanted in a womb at some point. Do you have a problem with identical twins who resulted after an in vitro fertilization? They, too, were conceived in a petri dish.

That is true…but something bothers me about geneticly copying a human being. It just doesn’t seem right. We have no right to create life outside the natural process…it can only lead to trouble IMHO.

Well, domestic turkeys can’t reproduce without human intervention. Does that make them soulless demon-birds? (Actually, according to one of my elementary school teachers, who worked one summer as a turkey inseminator . . .) Where’s your line?

BTW, very coincidental name, maxx.

I am familiar with domestic turkies…my best friend used to raise them…and no they aren’t souless…but they are deffinately not human…humanity is where we draw the line…and I have a hard time with primates too…this is a very difficult topic…and I seriously doubt any conclusion could be reaced amongst these boards. W will witness in our lifetime a debate that will surpass that of evolution v. creationism.

You’re absolutely right, Maxx, that this is a debate that will concern us and our children.

But we cannot answer anything without figuring out what is is we’re debating.
So, then. As I mentioned, agriculture, medicine, selective breeding of animals, etc, are all ways we “[tamper] with the cycle of life.” We have, since we first began cultivating crops and breeding and domesticating animals, we have “create[d] life outside the natural process.” Why is this acceptable? And why is it not acceptable for humans?

Also, you say that genetic engineering will “[toy with] the very thing that keeps us human.” What is that? What is it that “keeps us human?” Our genetic purity?

I think the issue is the whether its right to clone humans…thats just the basic summary…there is more to it, but lets keep it at that for now. Granted there are many similarities between man and beast, but here are some major differences and those diferences are the reasons as to why we shoudl draw the line at humans. WE are the only animal species that has the ability of free thought…and by free thought I mean …expression through art and literature and advanced languages. We have the ability to think past tomarrow. When we clone sheep, we don’t worry about the emtional trama the sheep will go through when it realizes it doesn’t havea mother…or a father for that matter…or the fact that its only copy of another human. If you give sheep hay and a field to sleep and play in…its genuinely happy…humans need so much more. Humans survive onthe basic principal that they have purpose in life…how do you tell clone he was not intended for anything more than to be studdied or that they were altered in order to fit their parents idea of a perfect child?..I don’t know …and I hope no one has to.

We humans have no purpose other than what we give ourselves. As for differences between ourselves and other animals, the difference is mostly just one of degreee. I think you have a very narrow definition of free thought. “art and literature and advanced languages” ? Those first two are done creatively by only a small fraction of the human race. All mammals have a limbic system - basically the organic seat of emotions in the brain - and are very likely capable of the full range of feelings usually referred to as “human”, though perhaps in different degrees, not all necessarily inferior. Anyone seriously claiming that only humans think needs to take a long hard look at the work done by Irene Pepperberg with Alex and other African Grey Parrots. Dr. Pepperburg has gone to extreme lenghts to avoid charges of anthropomorphic bias in her work which have been leveled at most language studies involving primates. See here for a good article on Alex.

My purpose is to find more virgin cave. :slight_smile:

If I was 18 years old, and I find out that I was cloned after Albert Einstein ,no make that O. J. Simpson, and to boot I somehow took up piano instead of playing football, I might wonder if my mother still loves me, and if I might have some deap seated character defect that I should warn my girlfriends about.

Some of us feel we have got to draw the line somewhere, because sooner or later we are going genetically modify ape brains for the purpose of domestic servitude. Then we head into an area where we may have to decide if certain apes should be accorded citizenship and others not. I don’t want to be around when we as a society are faced with having to make decisions like that.