WAG: It’s offensive because it’s a game system, something used to have fun. It shouldn’t be a thing to own simply because it’s scarce. The scalping is entirely due to a fabricated scarcity; if there were enough units at launch, it wouldn’t be worthwhile. Between Sony and the individuals capitalizing on the scarcity of the console, people who just want to give Sony money to use the PS3 for what it was designed are shit out of luck.
I do agree that it’s fully within their rights to do what they want with systems they purchase themselves. I even find the whole thing amusing to an extent, but only because I don’t intend on getting a PS3 myself. I can sympathize with the frustration of people who just want to play a freakin’ game, though.
I see the scalpers as parasites. They exascerbate the shortage in order to create a totally unnecessary secondary market for the product. The product was well on its way to end users, hijacked by middlemen, then marked up and re-sold.
The only service they’re providing is preventing ordinary people from buying PS3’s so that rich people can get them instead. While I don’t typically mind rich people being better off than everyone else, I really dislike it when their money actively prevents regular people from getting the things they want.
I had written up more pontification, but I see Cheesesteak got there first. The scalper doesn’t want to use the item, they just want to deny its availability so they can jack up the price. It may be legal, and I agree that there is no reason a buyer should have to explain their reasons for buying something before they can do so, but it’s still scummy.
What’s preventing ordinary people from getting them is the scarcity (intended or unintended), not the “vultures”. If there are only 1 million units available and 2 million people want to buy it then what do you propose. And are you claiming that if those people re-selling simpy didn’t get in line to buy the console there would be plenty available at a reasonable price?
Ther real complaint to me seems to be that the price is too high and people can’t afford them. So what, lots of people can’t afford diamonds or BMWs or steak? Just because the price on the box for a PS3 says $700 (or whatever it is) doesn’t mean that is the price.
I’m sorry, Cheesesteak, I don’t agree. The people buying the PS3 are not causing the shortage, that has to do with Sony and the production problems. “Regular people” are not being denied the opportunity to get the system, they just have to work a little harder because of the scarcity. If you really wanted a PS3 for your very own, then you too would have joined the throngs camping out in front of Best Buy. You’re the only one who stopped you from doing so, whether it was work or school or family or financial obligation. You can choose to buy one at inflated prices on Ebay, or wait until production catches up with demand.
This is no different, in my mind, between cleaning your house or hiring someone to clean it for you. Either you want to wait in line for a PS3, or you don’t. And if you don’t, you either will get a PS3 on Ebay or wait or not get one at all.
I say it is very much Sony’s fault. They HAD to get product out for the holidays and they HAD to beat Nintendo’s release by two days, so they created the situation by putting out far too little product to meet demand. I mean, it isn’t even close to what they should have released. Had they waited until they could have built more consoles, this would not have happened. There would still be midnight launches for sure, but that was true of the Gamecube and it went smoothly.
I also expect the Wii, where there are many many more units available to avoid any rioting and shooting.
Well, personally because I don’t see a problem with scalping. But even if you have a problem with it, this is not the same situation, because anyone who wants a PS3 will be able to get one for retail price if they wait. If people want to pay a premium for being the first on their block with the PS3, why the fuck should I care? You know, if I was bored enough to stand in line for two days in the hopes of making a couple grand profit by reselling it on eBay, you sure as hell bet I would. I have no moral qualms against it. Fact is, I do have the time and could have stood in line if I so chose. To me, though, standing in line to make a grand or two is not worth my time. I’d rather sleep comfortably in my own home.
If someone wants to take advantage of the market and earn some cash, good for them! Everyone has equal access to standing in line if they want the damned thing or if they want to profit from it.
The difference is everyone who wants a PS3 can get one if they wait. Maybe not with the comic book, or rare wines, or baseball cards, or whatever the hell else people collect, trade, and sell for profit. (And I don’t have a problem with those things either, it’s just that the PS3 situation is fundamentally different.)
1- Anybody who waits can get a PS3 at retail cost.
2- Eventually, enough PS3s will be made to meet demand. No more original mint in box Aurora Dracula model kits will ever be made.
3-I’ve never bought a PS3 to resell at higher cost. I’ve bought plenty of toys, comics etc to resell. I once bought a KISS trashcan for a buck and resold it for over a hundred. I bought it specifically to resell. I counted on scarcity and strong demand to ensure a high resale price. I possibly deprived a KISS fan of the chance to buy the trashcan for a buck. How do you feel about me?
That’s cool, as I said in my first post, I’m really just bitching.
That’s not really true, many many people are being denied the opportunity to get the system before Christmas, because of Sony’s shortage. The scalpers absorb some of the remaining units, and distribute them in a secondary market that many people are unable to take advantage of. Those units would otherwise go to “regular people” who are already having a tough time getting the supply they desire.
You getting your house cleaned does not affect my house at all. The scalping market means some people won’t get PS3 units, who would otherwise have gotten them.
Thieves, they are the ULTIMATE parasites.
One other item I just thought about is that stores are probably already taking steps to prevent scalping. I doubt that someone can walk into Best Buy and walk out with 10 PS3’s for resale. Besides the whole “I have to walk past that angry mob” issue, I suspect the stores enforce a 1 per customer limit, the way Ticketmaster will enforce a 4 ticket or 8 ticket maximum purchase to cut down on scalping.
DocCathode, was there a line of 100 people waiting to buy that KISS trashcan for their children to open up for the bestest Christmas ever? I think you’re in the clear.
No, you make some good points. I suppose my thing is that it’s just a goddamn game system. It’s not a high-end, limited run Ferrari or the last KISS trashcan on Earth. It’s just something for people to play games on, but the hype around it has elevated it to a collector’s item. “It’s a PS3! It’s a status symbol, because it’s a Playstation! You must buy it!” It shouldn’t be something to be prized for its scarcity.
But then, I’ve never been a collector at heart. I’ve always believed that if you’re not going to use something that you plan to spend an exorbitant amount of money on, it’s a waste of money. So, again, I sympathize with those who just wanted to play a game. I’m not saying they should stop, I’m not calling for a law outlawing such behavior or anything, I just sympathize that it’s frustrating.
And Cheesesteak, as far as I know that’s the case. I know for a fact that Circuit City’s limiting the new consoles to 1 per customer.
What you mean is, “some people won’t get the PS3 units right now, now now now, now now mommy I want it now, now now.”
They will get it — unless by some chance they suddenly drop dead, or Sony goes bankrupt, before it becomes available.
Is it a bad decision by Sony? That depends on how soft the demand is — if by releasing 1,000 units they get such bad reviews, and their product is so buggy, that they lose 1,000,000 sales through bad word-of-mouth, yeah, they’d have been better off hooking the suckers up front. The fact that they’re willing to wait suggests Sony believes the demand will stay high.
Well, the shortage wasn’t a secret, was it? If they absolutely positively had to get it for Christmas there are ways to get it.
The law of supply and demand. I would imagine the frenzy you’re seeing are those people who HAVE to have it, whether because they need to put a down payment on a car to get to work or to get a present for the kid. Besides, we’re just talking game systems here. We’re not talking about the last roll of toilet paper. That I might have to camp out for.
“Desire” is the key word here. If you “desire” it enough you’ll do whatever you can to get it.
No, they’ll get them. They just may not get them before Christmas.
Then why talk about “objectively” and “economic”? Objectively, economics rates benefit to society is a pretty precisely defined way, and clearly, people paying any less than they absolutely would be willing to for something they want, and sellers selling for more than they absolutely would be willing to generates social benefit.
What does that say about Sony: it’s making every SINGLE ONE of those units to turn a profit! Gasp!
As I noted earlier, there’s no particular reason to think that lottery systems are “fair” than any system of rationing that crops up on its own. Treating people as equal when they are not isn’t very fair either.
Incidentally, did you know that the majority of all species on Earth are parasites?
That’s not possible. The shortage is a shortage entirely irregardless of what they do. You will have just as little PS3 with or without them. If you DO want a PS3, then hey: then you’d better get a tent and get in line, no?
But the market isn’t unnecessary. It’s necessary precisely because people demand it at a much higher rate than it is available. This creates a market to solve that problem.
The fact that the ps3 is being offered for a nationally set price on first come, first serve basis is an economic inefficiency. It favors those who have the free time to sit around and camp outside a store: which is a pretty bizarre economic specialty.
Think of it as if the stores were offering the ps3 only in exchange for bagels. The “secondary” market takes that bizarre unbalance, and translates it into money: something that is common to everyone, that everyone can easily translate their own goods and services into.
Well, you were right about this argument being mostly emotional. Again, this is silly. The product wasn’t well on its way anywhere. It was well on its way ONLY to people who camped out in tents outside the store in order to buy it early. If you were willing to do that, then you could get one. If not they you don’t get one. The resell market doesn’t affect that whatsoever.
Are the people buying them to resell not “ordinary” people then?
And it means that others will get PS3 units who would otherwise have NOT gotten them. I don’t understand what would be a more fair distibution method? Other than the obviousness of Sony waiting until they had a reasonable number of them, that is.
So, how would you have gotten one. if it hadn’t been for the nasty old scalpers? There simply aren’t enough to go around. Let’s say that 1/2 of those waiting in line are going to buy one unit and re-sell it. Let’s further take those nasty “vultures and scumbags” out of the line. OK, then the 50% “extra” will STILL not go to Cheesesteak or DtC or whoever who breezes into the store after work around 6PM- they will instead just go to someone who *wanted one bad * *enough * to wait in line for 24 or even maybe 12 hours, not 48. *You won’t be one, you clearly don’t want one bad enough. *
Now, the thing about this is that if we had no “scumbag, vulture scalpers”- *everyone * who wanted one- at any price- would have to wait in line, just that the line would be a bit shorter is all. So, how is that fair to the working father who really has to have one for his kid, just plain can’t take 12 hours off to wait in line- but will happily pay double to avoid said wait? Isn’t that what work, free enterprise and capitalism is all about- an exchange of time for money? Some want to give their time and stand in line, others want to pay those dudes for their time. Sounds fair to me. You want to do neither, and the only way *you’re * going to be able to do that is get Sony to make enough- not sit at your keyboard and blame the “scumbag vulture scalpers”.
It’s not clear that them waiting until they had a reasonable number is any more fair anyway. It’s more fair for something to sit dormant in a warehouse when someone could be enjoying it?
