Please enlighten me on D&D

In My Humble Opinion
1

Ok. I’m confused. This is not unusual for me, but I appeal to the wisdom of D&D playing Dopers to set me straight. In Goose’s D&D 3rd Edition thread, I see reference to all these different versions of Dungeons and Dragons. I tried to read the whole thread but my brain started to hurt halfway through. Can someone enlighten me as to what these different editions/versions are?

Some background – I got the original Dungeons and Dragons box set for my birthday way back in the late 70s (I think) and played it for a while. The first module I ever played was “Keep on the Borderlands” (Anyone remember this? Did it come in the box set? I forget). Anyway, some time after (years? months? I forget) my friends and I graduated to Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, and I bought all the relevant books (Players Handbook, Monster Manual, DM Guide, etc.). These books represent the extent of my D&D (or AD&D by that point) experience. I haven’t played in about 15 years or so.

So my question is this: where do these Edition numbers come in? What edition was the first set of AD&D books, the ones I am familiar with – number 1 or number2 ? How come it is no longer called AD&D? Did AD&D go away or just get renamed?

OK, I guess that’s more than one question.

2

WotC is no longer supporting the original D&D. Since there’s no longer any thing for it to be Advanced from, they dropped the Advanced.

3

Just to clarify - Wizards of the Coast never supported original D&D - when they bought out TSR, they decided not to support it.

4

So does that mean the original AD&D materials are considered the first edition (I assume we are discounting the old original D&D)?

5

If I recall correctly…

In the begining there was Chainmail, a supplement for minatures warfare. Then Gygax and others made it into a full blown fantasy role playing game called Dungeons and Dragons, with a big list of authors whose works had inspired them. Tolkein, Moorcock, Lieber, et al…
D&D had expansions, additions and what not. Then, they reworked it, and called it Advanced Dungeons and Dragons.
After years of happiness, TSR (Three Stupid Roleplayers? I dunno) decided to “Fix it up” and came up with the much maligned “Second Edition” of AD&D. Some people stuck to First ed AD&D, some migrated to Second.
Now we have another few years, bad times in the RPG industry, and other things. TSR finally goes under, and is bought by Wizards of the Coast. They took the main product, and redid it again. But instead of calling it AD&D 3rd edition, they simply called Dungeons and Dragons, 3rd edition.

Simple? :smiley:

6

Bottle of Smoke wrote:

In the beginning, there was Chainmail!. It was a system for simulating medieval combat, and nothing more. It was not a role-playing game. And they saw that it was good.

Then came Dungeons & Dragons. You remember this as the “boxed set” you got for your birthday. It consisted of the Basic Set (which covered characters through 3rd level), the Expert Rules, and the World of Greyhawk. And they saw that it was good.

Then Gygax’s bunch decided to make an Advanced version of the rules. They called it Advanced Dungeons & Dragons. It consisted of the Monster Manual, the Player’s Handbook, and the Dungeon Masters’ Guide (published in that order). Nowadays, we refer to this as “AD&D 1st Edition”, but at the time they didn’t know there were going to be multiple editions of AD&D. The problem with this new AD&D system, though, was it was just different enough from the original D&D rules to be incompatible with them. Many die-hard enthusiasts of Original D&D refused to accept it. Thus, D&D and AD&D began to evole independently of one another.

Several years later, Gygax and company published the first major AD&D revision, in a book called Unearthed Arcana. It incorporated new character classes inspired by the D&D Saturday morning cartoon. (I am not kidding about that.) The paladin character class was vastly changed. Bunches of new magic items and spells were added. Unearthed Arcana is still considered part of the 1st Edition oevre, though.

The next major revision of the AD&D rules was the publication of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, 2nd Edition in 1989. Its most striking feature was that Gary Gygax had nothing whatsoever to do with it. There was much rejoicing. Unfortunately, it also eliminated the Monk character class. (I used to think they also eliminated psionics from 2nd Edition, but as it turns out, Steve Winter wrote an optional module called The Complete Guide to Psionics as a 2nd Edition supplement.)

Now, just this year, Wizards of the Coast has published D&D 3rd Edition. Despite its name, it is a revision of the AD&D rules, not the original D&D rules. The dropping of the “A” was little more than a formality – despite its die-hard adherents, non-Advanced D&D was all but dead, and Wizards of the Coast opted not to support it at all. With 3rd Edition there is no more AD&D/D&D schism, it’s all called D&D. And they’re planning to release their psionics rules in March.

So, in order, the editions were:[ul][li]Original D&D[/li][li]AD&D (1st Edition)[/li][li]Unearthed Arcana[/li][li]AD&D 2nd Edition[/li]D&D 3rd Edition[/ul]

7

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by tracer *
**Bottle of Smoke wrote:

And they’re planning to release their psionics rules in March.

So, in order, the editions were:[ul][li]Original D&D[/li][li]AD&D (1st Edition)[/li][li]Unearthed Arcana[/li][li]AD&D 2nd Edition[/li][li]D&D 3rd Edition[/ul] **[/li][/QUOTE]

Cool! I’ve already got Player Guide and DM’s guide. Loving it so far. I’d forgotten about Unearthed Arcana, and I did curse them mightly when they removed my beloved Monk class.

8

Ah, many thanks. I am starting to feel enlightened.

See, I missed the whole “2nd Edition” thing so I thought everyone was referring to AD&D as the 2nd edition. All is clear now, though.

I think that should I ever desire to play again, I will dig out all my old books and see if there is anyone out there who still plays the old AD&D (or 1st edition, as I guess I should properly call it). I have no desire to buy more books. :slight_smile: From what I have read in the other thread, the 3rd Edition would be like starting all over for me anyway.

Plus, I’ve got all those 20 year old AD&D character sheets that I haven’t used yet. It would be a shame to waste them all.

And hey tracer – of course I remember the D&D Saturday morning cartoon! How could anyone forget Donnie Most and Willie Aames in their finest voice-over form?

9

One rather ornery holdover from Unearthed Arcana that is still with us:

They’ve re-introduced the Barbarian character class in 3rd Edition D&D. Bleah.

10

I was just talking about ‘The Keep on the Borderlands’ with some friends Friday night. I remember DMing my 5 to 7 year old nephews and niece through it when I was 9. 8^)

11

Re: the D&D cartoon, in Baldurs Gate 2 there are some paintings in the back of the Adventurers Mart that are stills from the old cartoon. When you examine them, the game tells you they are paintings of young adventurers from long ago, who were all devoured by Tiamat. Laughed out loud when I caught that…

12

Badtz Maru wrote:

So, didja play with the “players versus DM” mentality typical for gamers that age? :wink:

13

I thought that it was the other way around; that the D&D cartoon characters were inspired by Unearthed Arcana. Besides, you can’t possibly say the Dragon’s Graveyard episode where the kids decide to murder Venger in cold blood wasn’t good!

14

A summary from the 2000 GenCon handbook:

Gary Gygax published some ‘LTGSA Medieval Minatures Rules’ (Lake Geneva Tactical Studies Association) in 1969. These were tabletop wargames.
Gygax then introduced individual combat and fantasy creatures in ‘Chainmail’ in 1971.
Dave Arneson developed the roleplaying idea with his Blackmoor campaign from 1971 onwards.
After being turned down by Avalon Hill, Gygax formed a company called TSR (Tactical Studies Rules) and published the first D+D game. (It had Fighters, Magic-Users and Clerics only).
There followed some booklets introducing the Thief etc., but around 1976 Dr. Holmes (a D+D fan) produced the Blue Book - the D+D Basic set.
In 1977 TSR produced the Monster Manual, then the Players Handbook in 1978 and the DM Guide in 1979.
The parallel development of D+D and AD+D was partly due to an out-of-court settlement agreed after Arneson left TSR.
Unearthed Arcana came out in 1985, and 2nd Edition AD+D in 1989.
Wizards of the Coast bought TSR in 1997.
Hasbro bought Wizards of the Coast in 1999. (They already owned Avalon Hill, so there’s some irony there!).
Arneson is still running his Blackmoor campaign. :cool:

If anyone’s interested, I’ll be delighted to give my story of how I got into the game here in England in 1979. Like Arneson, I’m still playing (1st edition, of course!).

15

tracer wrote:

I’ve never heard this before. Please explain.

Bottle of Smoke wrote:

Ah. Obviously not a real gamer.

16

glee: From what you say, it sounds like Arneson and/or Holmes managed to keep hold of the D&D trademark independently of TSR (who had to settle for using the name AD&D). How did Wizards of the Coast manage to call their new produce D&D and not AD&D? Did the old D&D trademark expire and Wizards of the Coast just pounced on it or something?

17

Johnny Angel wrote:

The main characters on the D&D cartoon show, which came out in 1983, were named:[ul][li]Ranger[/li][li]Barbarian[/li][li]Magician[/li][li]Thief[/li][li]Cavalier, and[/li][li]Acrobat[/ul]The first edition Player’s Handbook already had character classes named thief, ranger, and magician. (Okay, the last one was called “magic-user,” not magician, but it’s close enough for hamburgers.) It did not have character classes named barbarian, or cavalier, or acrobat.[/li]
When Unearthed Arcana came out in 1985, it introduced exactly 3 new character classes. And what were they called?[ul][li]barbarian[/li][li]cavalier, and[/li]thief-acrobat[/ul]Coincidence? Or … conspiracy? You decide!

18

Well, some of those classes (i.e. Cavalier and Barbarian) had been published in Dragon Magazine a long time before they were put in ‘Unearthed Arcana’, though I’m not sure of the timeframe…I don’t think they were inspired by the cartoon, though I could be wrong.

19

All I’ve got is this article in the GenCon program. Let’s see…

Arneson came to work for TSR in 1976. His association ended within a year. When he left, TSR were paying him royalties on D+D and the Blackmoor supplement.
In 1979 Arneson claimed the AD+D game was a derivative (presumably of D+D). The issue was settled out of court in 1981.
Arneson reappeared as an author in 1986-7 of a series of D+D modules set in Blackmoor.

Finally 3rd edition brings all versions together under the heading of D+D.

…that’s all I can glean. Holmes is described as a fan, who volunteered to draft the D+D basic set, so I doubt he would have any rights.
I think TSR published everything (I never bought any D+D stuff, so can’t be sure, though), so I imagine the lawsuit just gave Arneson a share of the profits, rather than control of publication.
Maybe a dedicated lawyer could search for the details?

20

Of course, for maximun bookage, and what not, my group has migrated to playin Steve Jacksons’ GURPS… it works well.

Any other young dopers have problems with their families when they got into Role-Playing?

My favorite was when I was working at a hospital up in Montana, when I pulled out on of my books and was doing some research… it started a discussion that lead to such phrases as “Well, I could feel the evil around you when you walked in.” and “Don’t you know that Satan is controllling you, you just don’t know it?”

I love it…