[QUOTE=DragonAsh]
Isreal & the Hezbollah are going at it, hammer and tongs. All I know is that everyone in the Middle East seems to be mad at everyone else. Could someone please explain to me what the crisis all about, why Isreal always seems to be at the center of it, and why/how the US is (or isn’t involved), and/or why we should/shouldn’t b
I am suprised on how little the majority of the population knows about a was that has been going on for over a hundred years in which the United States and Great Britian have played integral roles in exacerbating the situation in the Middle East. A short summmary: For 1500 years the Jews have been without their Holy Land, given to them by God himself, Jerusalm (contained in present day Israel.) The Arabs, though historically not native to the region, have lived in Israel and the vast surrouding areas for the last 400 years. Basically the conflcit is that both the Arabs and the Jews want the same land.
[QUOTE=DragonAsh]
Isreal & the Hezbollah are going at it, hammer and tongs. All I know is that everyone in the Middle East seems to be mad at everyone else. Could someone please explain to me what the crisis all about, why Isreal always seems to be at the center of it, and why/how the US is (or isn’t involved), and/or why we should/shouldn’t b
I am suprised on how little the majority of the population knows about a war that has been going on for over a hundred years in which the United States and Great Britian have played integral roles in exacerbating the situation in the Middle East. A short summmary: For 1500 years the Jews have been without their Holy Land, given to them by God himself, Jerusalm (contained in present day Israel.) The Arabs, though historically not native to the region, have lived in Israel and the vast surrouding areas for the last 400 years. Basically the conflcit is that both the Arabs and the Jews want the same land.
Until the end of World War 2, few countries cared about the dispute between the two peoples, but after the news of the atrocities commited against the Jewish peoples in Europe, countries like the United States and England decided that it was right for these millions of displaced Jews with nowhere to go, to have a homeleand to call their own. The great powers decide that the city of Jerusalem should go to the Jews as historically (even stated in the bible) it was their land.
With approval of the United Nations, England sets up a new country called Israel which is formally recignized as a nation by most western nations. Naturally, the Arabs who have been living in the area known has Israel for over 400 years did not agree with the decision to give away their land to the Jews, and so the war begins.
Some fairly elementary research will show you that neither of these statements represent the true case.
Briefly - the supposed 93% Israel offerred Arafat, retained the vital and necessary resources of the West Bank Israel has taken. Both I and A knew that I’s offer guaranteed only a failed state. The purpose of the offer was to generate precisely the public relations line you have repeated.
Israel’s complete destruction; Depends how you measure that. Ethnically cleansed of all the Jewish population? No-one is seriously advocating that.
A democratic and enfranchised state without a mandated religious character? Quite a lot of people are advocating that. If that is “Israel’s complete destruction” bring it on!
The question was whether there was a good shot of a Palestinian state. I’m happy to disabuse Loopy’ of that notion. Did Arafat behave in an optimal or reasonable manner? Who can say?
You’ve disabused me of nothing, and your intractable anti-Israeli ranting is tedious.
That Clinton and Barak handed Arafat an abortion is conjecture. That the right of return is a complete non-starter is certain. Unless that’s off the table, there is nothing to negotiate, because you and I both know full well that it’s the end of Israel, either slowly or quickly.
bolding mine
I thought that the European jews were escaping persecution in Europe after WWI and then again during WWII and escaping the nazi holocaust. What do you mean move back? I may be wrong, but could you provide a cite. You are not refering to the biblicalexodus are you? Or is in reference to returning after resistance by the Ottomans in the late 1880s when jews started immigrating to the region?
At one time the middle east was a lush, green growing place and life was good. Then, over the space of a thousand years or four the earth heated up and the area became quite arid. It created a place where dictators could hold land and not need to worry about revolt because you can’t hold a revolution if you have to strain just to get the food you need to survive.
Then one day oil is discovered, enriching the dictators to ghastly levels and giving them infinitely more power than just that needed to oversee some desert farmers.
They form alliances and hatreds, and the people of these nations are entirely at the mercy of the government which now has tanks and bombs to their hoes and rakes. The people fear, but are in such fear that they can’t even bring themselves to talk poorly of their own dictator. Enterprising individuals see this and turn this frustration and powerlessness and turn it against the people buying the oil saying it is their fault. These enterprising individuals gather followers and became little emperors for only the price of sending off minions every once in a while so they look like they actually care about what they claim to be fighting for.
Into this, the people who are buying the oil establish a nation (Israel) and give them a lot of military support right in the middle of this land full of dictators, oil money, and emperor wannabe terrorist leaders.
Seconded. Please clarify. If you mean reversing the Diaspora following (and, in fact, largely preceding) the last Jewish revolt against Rome, that’s bullshit. “Law of Return,” indeed! Jews can no more go “back” to Palestine than American Indians can go “back” to Siberia or Gypsies to India.
Yes, I meant reversing the diaspora. The Jews who “returned” were many, many generations removed. I tried to be as neutral as possible. Whether or not that is BS is for readers to decide. I tend to think that Zionism is a mistake.
I was hoping so also. The beauty of that quote by moof12 is that, (based on information from my mother’s bible study class) God basically gave them the green light to remove whoever was there already. Can’t remember the exact quote.
Ok, Damn, that was funny! Seriously, I laughed out loud and spit beer! Good one. Do ya mind if I use it as a joke in my comic strip? Cuz that was a good one.
There is nothing intractable or ranting about anything I’ve posted. Each post has been a model of decorum. The facts as to the 93% claim are well established and it is surprising to hear them challenged.
I don’t believe the “right of return” was in fact the sticking point and in any case how would such a thing be the end of Israel? As per above, if that meant a popularly enfranchised democratic state, bring it on.
