Please give us some pointers for our South-West USA road trip and tell us we're not crazy...

A LOT closer.

I have to echo what others have said. I am a very good (American) long-distance driver that has been to most states and I got exhausted just reading your list. That is a schedule for a long-haul truck driver, not a vacation. It is simply too much, too far in too little time.

You need to pick the 3 or so things that you really want to do and do them well rather than taking the shotgun approach. Don’t be shy about flying domestically either. It could very well be easier and even cheaper than driving although driving through the desolate parts of the Southwest has its own charm especially for Europeans.

I personally like San Francisco (I recommend an Alcatraz tour if you can swing one) and Las Vegas even though I don’t really gamble. Both of those are world-class destinations on their own. You could just make a triangle that goes San Francisco - Las Vegas - Los Angeles that would be enviable. That would cut out some of the nature stuff but Las Vegas has day tours of the Grand Canyon by helicopter or small plane. They aren’t cheap but it would be very memorable.

If I had two weeks in the West (instead of the 60 years I have actually had), I would either do two weeks in California (even if you never slept you’d not see a tenth of it), or two weeks in the high desert, which is tolerable in summer – Canyon de Chelly, Taos, Santa Fe, Mesa Verde, Bryce. The low desert is deadly in summer, not fit for living beings at all.

You couldn’t pay me to go to Las Vegas. Las Vegas in August? Just shoot me.

Yosemite is also hideously crowded in the summer, go to a lesser known but equally beautiful park like Kings Canyon. There are lovely places around Tahoe. Warning – the Sierras are somewhat equivalent to the Alps. It takes a long time to get anywhere in them, other than on 80. There are few other passes. We’ve had record snow this winter, and there may well be snow fairly low down well into the summer. If you can swing it, don’t miss Tioga Pass. At almost 10,000 feet, it is quite the driving experience. Just south of Yosemite.

As an aside, Hiking “down” sounds easy, but it is hard on the knees and hips.

Distances look deceiving on maps, it takes forever to get anywhere out West. And there’s lots to see. Don’t be the Griswolds!

So you’re saying you want to spend 5-6 hours a day for two weeks straight driving through mostly dull desert in crazy heat, followed by a few daylight hours each day at spectacularly interesting and beautiful areas during which time you’ll need to find a place to stay, eat rest, stock up on necessities, then wake up the next day and do it all over again? Your plan is GREAT! :smiley:

(seriously, what everyone else said. Pick 3 places, spend a few days in each, with 1 day driving in between, and actually enjoy yourself.)

Nitpick - Tioga pass goes through Yosemite. It’s the “leave to the east” option in the OP. I definitely concur that it’s a don’t-miss experience. All the more reason not to drive it at night after an all-day climb to Glacier Point.

Yeah, I guess you are right, it does go through Yosemite. Concur don’t drive it at night. For one thing it is scary enough during the day!

There’s so much more in Yosemite than the Valley. Spending what amounts to a single day there buzzing through the park and doing a single (if spectacular) park misses so many of what the park has to offer. Hetch Hetchy, Tuolumne Meadows, the Mariposa Grove, and dozens of other places get overshadowed by the Valley, but they are just as spectacular and much less crowded.

If I just had 2 weeks I’d spend it mostly in CA, or hit the parks in Utah (although I wouldn’t go in August, that’s going to limit what you can do).

I’m a life-long resident of the western U.S. Has anyone mentioned yet that your plan is overly ambitious? Reading your itinerary, I began to wonder if we were being whooshed. I would rather be beat to death, chopped to pieces, and fed to the dogs than take a “vacation” like that. Slow down and smell the roses!

Day 8 will be almost impossible. It’s a several hour drive from Bryce Canyon to Arches NP (4 hours per mapquest). It will take at least 3-5 hours to look Arches over and a couple of days would be more like it. Then it’s another 3 hours more to Monument Valley. You’ll have a hard time making it in those times because there are just too many great places to stop and look.

Another vote here for cutting back a bit.

San Francisco is fun. Two or three days there is a hoot. Fly to Salt Lake City and rent a car and spend a week touring southern Utah (which in my opinion is some of the most beautiful country in the world). Fly back to SF, rent another car and drive down Highway 1 to LA.

I walked down into the Grand Canyon last year in October and it was tough getting back up. In July it will be really, really bad. IMHO unless you and your lady are monster backpackers it will be a bad experience.

Why is Magic Mountain non-negotiable? I don’t mean that in a judgy way, it just seems a bit out of place with the rest of your activities and then also taking into account all the other attractions of Los Angeles. Is this a David Hasselhoff scenario? Does Magic Mountain have a certain amount of honeymoon street cred in Germany that the rest of us just wouldn’t understand?

Could you share the itinerary of the earlier trip?

I have no idea where to start. I could write a book on what is wrong with these plans.

I have lived in the western US all of my life, over half a century. In August that part of the country is HOT!!! Take at least two gallons of water per person per day. I am NOT kidding! Keep it in the car & take it with you when you go hiking. I always carry four gallons of water per day with me when I plan on just driving, through that area, not hiking anywhere. I do this even in the wintertime. If my wife is with me, we carry eight gallons of water.

I have no desire to come look for you when you fall over from heat stroke! I am prepared & I will come look. I will help carry you out, but please, take plenty of water, so I do not have to. I have done that way to often. It is usually some tourist who thought that the locals were kidding them when they said to take along, & drink, a lot of water. Also, do us both a favor, read up on the signs of dehydration. Know them well. If you do half of what is on your list during the hot afternoons, you WILL get dehydrated. I guarantee that. Recovery time from dehydration is longer than most folks think that it is. A week, not a day, & certainty not hours.

Look at doing your hiking in the cool of the morning. Plan to be done with your hike by 10:00AM. I am serious here. I try to drive during the night time & hike in the AM. Then I sleep during the heat of the afternoon. Get motels with good air conditioners.

One of many roads to not drive at night is the one east out of Yosemite. The views are stunning, don’t miss them. Be aware that at dawn & dusk, the wildlife is on the move. Think about deer & elk jumping in front of your car. On that twisty mountain road, deer & elk can kill you. Elk are the size of horses. Hitting one of them can ruin your whole day.

Oh yeah, IIRC, That area is free range. That means that cattle are allowed to roam free on the range & roads as well. If you hit one, not only will you be responsible to repair the car, you will also be buying some rancher a cow.

As others have said, you are planning way too much for way too little time. I recommend two or, at most, three places to see.

San Fran, can be a week all by itself. Go north up the 101 to Eureka. That will take you through one of the state redwood forests. That trip will take a day, or go all the way to the Oregon border. That will get you another state redwood forest & it runs beside the ocean north of Eureka.

Kings canyon over Yosemite is a good call. I like it because there are less tourist & it is not as crowded as Yosemite Valley is. Also, IMHO, it is prettier. I go to see the land, not the people. Again, a week is not enough time to see this.

Reno over Las Vegas, another good call. It is close to Lake Tahoe. Lake Tahoe is up in the Sierra Nevada mountains. There, it will be cooler than on the desert floor in August. A week spent in this area is about right.

If you really must visit the desert country in August, I also recommend choosing an area & visiting the parks around that area. Do not miss some of the state & county parks. Some of them are at least on par with the national parks. Again, less people. Then again, maybe you like being all crowded up.

Moab, Utah comes to mind. There are three or more national parks to see in that area. You could get a motel for five days to a week, visit a different park each day & still miss some beautiful country.

Of course, with my user name, I would be out of line not to mention the Moab Jeep Tours. You get to see the country, & this is one time to be a passenger & not the driver.

IHTH, 48.

PS, Wow! I almost did write a book.

You might could rent a small RV and have your accommodation w/ you wherever you go. I see them all over the place here in Utah when there’s no snow on the ground.

Your itinerary is an aggressive one, w/ no built-in buffer for things going wrong in a country not your own and expensive flights bookending it, that’s MY concern for you.

Pitchmeister, you and your fiancée sound like road warriors. I like your style. My wife and I are road warriors. I do almost all the driving, and sometimes she does a little driving if I need some rest. We’ve driven these areas several times recently. A few years back we took 5 weeks off of work for what we call our Great Southwest USA Road Trip Adventure. We toured all throughout the SW USA which has some fantastic scenery. Your itinerary is ambitious but doable! Some may call you crazy but they don’t get it.

I strongly suggest going to the North Rim and avoiding the South Rim altogether. The South Rim is crazy busy crowded, especially in summer. Also, check on road work being performed. US-89 near Cameron AZ was being widened last year, causing slow downs. Check road work along your routing, especially with an ambitious itinerary.

+1 for the poster who said to check the drop-off rental rates. It may be better to re-route yourselves so you pick up and drop off at the same place. Maybe you make a big circle. But if it’s worth it to start at SFO and end at LAX, then go for it!

My wife and I have followed ambitious itineraries, like yours. We have also done very loose itineraries where we just “follow our noses” along the way. With the former, if you book every hotel you are committing to an aggressive pace that does not allow room for hiccups (e.g., what if you lose a half or whole day due to car troubles?). Not likely, but could happen. Could be costly especially if your good-rate hotels are no-refund deals. With the latter you run the risk of not having a room for the night. We have blankets and pillows and aren’t allergic to spending a night or two in the car. For some, that is a No-Go Show Stopper. Not for us.

If you two are seasoned road warriors then you know what you can and can’t do. If you haven’t done this type of ambitious itinerary then I strongly suggest revising it. But if you’re comfortable with this plan then go for it!

I have been called crazy too. Hey, it’s not for everyone but it can be done, and done enjoyably. You are right when you say you can spend 2 weeks at each of those destinations.

Regarding the North Rim, I’d realign days 7-11 to put Jacob Lake and the North Rim between Zion/Bryce and Monument Valley. Jacob Lake has some decent hotels, BTW. And there are some real fleabag hotels throughout the SW USA, so watch for bedbugs and such. i stayed in one in Colorado City AZ a few months back. Not a relaxing place.

Monument Valley, BTW, is one of my favorite places. One of these days I will spend the night then get up at zero dark early just to watch the sun rise slowly, watch the colors change while having some soft music playing and we’re curled up under a blanket in our folding chairs and sipping on a hot cup of joe. That is on The List.

BTW as I write this I am planning a road trip from Varenna ITA & Lake Como, north through some nice Alpine Passes, to Schloß Vaduz LIE, to Prien DEU, to Berchtesgaden, to Gmünd in Kärnten AUT. I am eyeballing the Deutsche Alpenstraße (Queralpenstraße) and trying to make that work! That will be in late June. Have you driven the Deutsche Alpenstraße? (Don’t mean to hijack) We, BTW, are not making a loop, we are starting in Roma and ending in Venezia. The car drop-off fee is worth it to us.

This needs to be repeated. When I began my hike through Horseshoe Canyon, I left my cabin in Moab with six gallons of 50% Gatorade/water mix. By the time I returned that night, I had drunk all six gallons, and hadn’t peed even once! It was just drink and sweat, drink and sweat all day. But my big mistake - HUGE mistake - was not telling anyone where I was going. I didn’t see another soul all day. If something had happened to me, I’d have had no way to get help, and nobody would be looking for me. And for a 60yo with health issues, I was really putting my life on the line. So tell someone where you’re going (like a park ranger), take enough water, wear a hat, and don’t overestimate your abilities.

Definitely, bring water. Good point!

I did a cross-canyon hike about 10 years ago, so I hope this isn’t out of date.

Beds at Phantom Ranch are tough to get. They start taking reservations a year in advance on the first of the month. I finally got through on the phone about 2 hours after they opened and got the last bed they had for the month. I don’t know if the campgrounds are quite as hard to book, but it wouldn’t surprise me.

I see you’ve done the hike before. South Kaibab Trail does not have water, but has better views (or so I hear) than Bright Angel, so you want to go down South Kaibab, up Bright Angel. Sounds like you already know this.

If you decide to go to the North Rim, it’s a tougher hike to the bottom from there. North Kaibab Trail is about 14 miles to the river, and an extra 1000’ of elevation compared to the South Rim. Most of the descent is in the first 7 miles, so the last 7 miles is deep in the Canyon. There’s a stream, but if you do that part of the trail in the afternoon in August it’s still gonna be nasty hot.

Definitely take this seriously. Notify someone of your itinerary, have them send the rangers out to look for you if you don’t check in, all that stuff. It’s a spectacular place, and an amazing thing to have done, but I don’t know if I’d want to book anything else for the same trip. I could barely walk for ten days.

Oh, and if you’re planning on taking the Grand Canyon mule ride… it has to be booked a long time in advance, and there’s a weight limit. And they turn people away who don’t look fit enough. And if you do go, do not get on the last mule in line; mule shit stinks!

Wow!

That’s a bit more opposition than we had anticipated. We will most definitely cut back somewhere and rearrange stuff, probably leaving out Arches and Monument Valley, as that seems to be the furthest out of the way, for least gain (at least in our timeframe). We’ll have to talk about it, I’ll get back to you with a revised plan.

In the meantime, while we are appreciative of all your concerns, it’s not like we just took a finger to a globe and said “Looks like a smart idea!” For one, this exact trip was recommended on a travel website we trust, although with a bit more time. We hashed out all driving times, and fully intend to book accommodation along the way beforehand, so as not to lose time and end up in a dump. That’s precisely the reason I came here. Like I said, I did a similar trip 8 years ago, at the same time of year, and while it was hot, it was survivable.

Here’s our route from back then: LA - Las Vegas - Grand Canyon (hike down and up like we’re planning to now) - go around Grand Canyon - Zion - Yosemite - San Francisco - Route 1 - LA

I believe it was in a little less time even, so I know a little bit what I’m talking about. Granted, the visits at Zion and Yosemite were of the sort we’re trying to avoid now - drive in, “look, how awesome!”, leave. About the heat in the desert - during the hike down Grand Canyon I’m sure it was about 110° many times, and we had indeed thought to bring water. Extreme, but also extremely beautiful, and we survived. This exact part I know for a fact I can do. This is also the bit my fiancee (who was not on this trip 8 years ago) is the most excited about.

I’ll answer some of your questions below, but please know that my OP does not represent the full extent of our planning. We might be crazy, but we’re not completely stupid! :wink: