Please help educate me on standard "party-girl"-type teenage rebellion.

In My Humble Opinion
21

Disclaimer: I am not a parent, but I was a troubled 15 year old girl once.

I had (and still have) an aunt. At that time, she was the only person in my life who treated me like an adult (even though I wasn’t). She had the guts to ask me the questions that my parents probably wanted to ask but didn’t know how to. She didn’t pussyfoot around, she just came straight out with the questions.

There was nothing I could say that would shock her, there was nothing I could say that would make her think bad of me. I could tell her everything and anything. Nothing ever got back to my parents. In return, I learnt a lot about her life (and, by default, my mother’s). Everything was open, nothing was ‘censored for teenagers’.

The closest she ever got to anything judgemental was to say, ‘Life is so different for young people from when I was growing up.’

She never once tried to give me advice on what I should or shouldn’t do, she just listened.

She was (and continues to be) awesome.

22

One thing for the OP: never be alone with her. If she’s acting up now with her parents, think about the effect of her making a complaint of a sexual nature.

23

While I have quite close several people who managed to convince themselves that Dad would be all right through 3 years fighting cancer, I also know quite a few teenagers and children who were nowhere near as deluded about the illness of a loved one or a bad economic situation as their caretakers would have liked to have them. My crystal ball says that one of the reasons for the partying may be a not-quite-conscious attempt at keeping her mind off the situation at home; even if she doesn’t know the details, she does know that something is very, very wrong and being kept from her. The same crystall ball says this is the first time this girl has been exposed to any kind of serious difficulty; so, her orderly world is thrown into disarray by both hormones and Mom’s illness - and her parents try to protect her, like a child who is too young to understand or be of help. She wants to be treated like an adult, instead she gets babying.

Another vote for “the first thing party girl needs is a grown-up who she can talk to without being babyed - no admonishing, no trying to protect her from herself or the world”. Someone who will listen to the response after asking a question and who will answer when asked one.

Oh, and if your friends ever start on either the “but your sister was so glorious!” or the “but you could do so much better!” spiels: hit them with a rolled-up newspaper.

24

She has the internet, she knows her mum is having a bone marrow tansplant- don’t you think she has googled that?

I think she is failing at school because she can’t focus on studies with this going on. She’s using partying as a way to numb her emotions and distract herself from this reality, and she’s getting some (albeit shallow and less than ideal) support and validation from her friends. Oh yeah, and partying is more fun than studying, and kids don’t do delayed gratification well.

You don’t “protect” people in this situation. You acknowledge that there is a major issue with mum, you explain what is being done and how she can help, and you allow her to vent her feelings about it.

The implicit message from her family is that her school work matters more than acknowledging her right to feel upset about what is going on, and that as long as she behaves at school it is OK for her mum to be seriously ill. Not the message they intend to deliver- but that is the one being sent.

She “despises” her mother because she is angry with her- if mum wasn’t ill things would be better, if mum wasn’t old/embarassing life would be easier, if mum dies oh-my-god-what-if-my-mum-dies!
I have wonderful parents and I still went through a teenage rebellious phase, the difference being that I never slacked off academically. I met my future husband when I was 19 and fell head over heels in love with a man who felt the same way and that was that- all the self esteem and validation one could hope for= no more need for acting out.

The main issue her is honesty- parents need to be honest with her, she needs to be honest with them. Academic aptitude and achievement come way down the line.

25

I think you guys are overthinking this. There isn’t always a clear cut reason as to why someone acts as they do. My guess is, she probably has friends who like to party, or likes boys who happen to party, or gasp she just likes to party. At this age, her friends are a hell of a lot more important to her then her school work or parents and no advice from anyone else matters.

All you can do is just reiterate how important that it is that she doesn’t do anything now that will permanently affect her life in the future… which means, no getting arrested, no pregnancy, no ODing and no dropping out of school. Get her ass on birth control and hope for the best. She will EVENTUALLY outgrow this.

26

Lucky Sandra. My mother died when I was 7. She had been sick for years, but my sister and I never knew she was dying. After she died, my father never said her name again or alluded to her in any way in front of us, and neither did any other member of our family. His sister, our aunt, took us clothes shopping etc., but never once was I asked if I missed my mother, if I needed to talk about her, if I liked any boys . . . It’s a miracle I didn’t end up on drugs, promiscuous, crazy – Oh, wait, that was my sister.

27

Well, everybody is different. Some people take Depo for a long time, have no adverse effects at all, and would highly recommend it (like me). Rather than focusing in on the micro-details of choosing which birth control method is best for some random internet stranger’s 15-year-old daughter, how 'bout we pay the OP enough respect to assume that he’s a grown man and a responsible parent who has probably already thought of this. Which method is the best to use would be between the OP, his daughter, and her doctor.

28

Maybe one way to stop this 15 year old girl from becoming a 15 year old mom is to ugly her ass up

29

As to the OP, I definitely think the acting out is a reaction to being kept in the dark about her mom. The kid may be self-medicating out of fear. Dad needs to have a talk.

In short, what **irishgirl **said.

30

No need for the condescension, especially since the OP is the godfather, not the parent.

31

Or make her even more depressed and harmful to herself. When I was 17, I gained 70 lbs on Depo and it was literally the only time in my entire life I’ve been depressed. I was miserable. As someone who has never had a single psychological problem in my life, that was hard enough to deal with-- I can’t imagine doing that to somebody who might already have mental issues.

I vote for: make sure her parents are letting her know her options, etc etc

32

Because lowering the self esteem of a teenage girl is obviously the best way to keep her legs closed…

33

That was an obvious joke.

I want to point out, again, that the OP title isn’t really apt to this situation. I don’t know what % of teen girls have to worry about their mom dying, but it’s small enough that this is not “standard” rebellious behavior. And it cannot be handled as such.

34

I think two talks need to take place, and if you are close enough to have them, you should. Dad has demonstrated that he’s not ready to do it, and has already lost her trust:

  1. Everything about Mom needs to be discussed immediately. She knows she is being lied to, and I’m sure hates it. Not having someone to talk to about it very often leads to PTSD, which could lead to much worse than 15-year old partying and bad grades.

  2. Someone needs to talk to her about her “perfect” sister, and be told that she is just as worthy of being loved.

Overall, someone just needs to listen to her. Long car drives are perfect for something like this, since it takes the pressure off a little. She clearly needs someone in her life that is “hers”, just like the aunt above. Someone to listen, to talk to her like an adult and to treat her normally, not like a “kid”

I would even go so far as to do this without asking Dad’s permission - I’m sure he’s scared and uncertain, but keeping the kid in the dark about mom can lead to very serious problems down the road.

35

Another vote for the Dad to be upfront with the kids about Mom. I grew up in a family with a lot of denial about a lot of things, and it sucked.

36

Hoo boy, lots of stuff here to think about. First, I’m touched to see how many of you took the time to reply. I have been reading and reflecting and re-deading a lot.

I have seldom seen,if ever, an IMHO thread in which a broad consensus among posters was ever far off the mark. It seems everyone who commented on the mother’s illness feels that it’s playing an important role in the behaviour, and that it’s a bad thing for the dad to try to keep her in the dark about the gravity of the situation. Honestly, I have to confess to having a hunch in this regard that’s been nagging me for a long time. I have even broached the topic with him once, asking him “Don’t you think it would be better if you were straight up with the girls about Mom’s illness?” He was pretty categorical that this would detract both of them from their studies: the older one from getting the high grades she needs to get into the vet program she wants, and the party-girl from making any improvements, as she was already having a lot of trouble. I left it at that, since I’m not the father, and since I wasnt’ any more sure that I was right.

Of all the interpretations of her perspective, to my gut Irishgirl’s and Nava’s sound closest to what I perceive:

[QUOTE=Irishgirl]
She has the internet, she knows her mum is having a bone marrow tansplant- don’t you think she has googled that?

I think she is failing at school because she can’t focus on studies with this going on. She’s using partying as a way to numb her emotions and distract herself from this reality, and she’s getting some (albeit shallow and less than ideal) support and validation from her friends. Oh yeah, and partying is more fun than studying, and kids don’t do delayed gratification well.
[/QUOTE]

I would be suprised if she did google it, because this girl doesn’t have a lot of initiative, and isn’t very resourceful, but she may have. I think it would be worthwhile to ask her if she’s tried to find out more about her mom’s illness. It would also be a good indicator of her thinking about this.

[QUOTE=Nava]
My crystal ball says that one of the reasons for the partying may be a not-quite-conscious attempt at keeping her mind off the situation at home; even if she doesn’t know the details, she does know that something is very, very wrong and being kept from her.
[/QUOTE]

I couldn’t say hom much of the behaviours are because she can’t focus vs. keeping her mind off home vs. just fun seeking right now. However, given the timing of both her decline and mom’s sickness, it seems almost certain that it’s some mix of these three things. What to do about it is less clear in my mind.

Suggestions so far are to either convince the father to stop shielding the girls, or to offer another ear, an agreable “aunt”, who could step in. As it happen, my wife, who has been handling the tutoring, would be ideally placed for this. She happens to be an oncologist, and so can speak with a certain expertise on the medical matters. She also has the ability to keep a neutral, attentive expression even if someone is admitting commiting multiple war-crimes to her. Party-girl has already admitted a few things to her that would have given me terminal eyebrow raising muscle cramps.

This could answer the girls’ emotional needs better than they are being me now, but it also undermines her repect for her had, and goes against his stated intention. I love the guy like a dear brother, and I’m not sure I should do that.

On the other hand,** Irish girl** brings up a critical point:

[QUOTE=irishgirl]
The implicit message from her family is that her school work matters more than acknowledging her right to feel upset about what is going on, and that as long as she behaves at school it is OK for her mum to be seriously ill. Not the message they intend to deliver- but that is the one being sent.
[…]
The main issue her is honesty- parents need to be honest with her, she needs to be honest with them. Academic aptitude and achievement come way down the line.
[/QUOTE]

I’m not sure if she’s perceptive enough to catch the implicit message mentioned, but evenif she isn’t, from an ethical point of view, the parents demand honesty from party-girl, and she had been suprisingly up-front. While she has sneaked around, done things they disaprove of, and not volunteered incriminating information, she ***has ***readily admitted a number of things when questionned directly. It would seem to me that integrity and reciprocity demand Dad be as honest back.

I guess I’m not relishing / dreading a bit having to tell my freind: “Bro, I think you’re making a big mistake here, and I think it’s making matters worse...” At least we’ve got a relationship where we can be quite blunt with each other, but still… Having my wife counsel her on the side would be an easy cop out in this regard.

There are number of other issues raised in the threat that I want to address, but I think I will do it in separate posts, may the mods forgive me, otherwise this is going to turn into an epistle.

37

Man, you gotta love these “I want advice/let me tell you why your advice sucks” threads. I am out here.

38

Party-girl’s relationship and feelings with her mom, before and since the illness, are such a complicated ball of fish / kettle of wax as to make me mix my metaphores…

Perhaps I can start with a bit of additional background information. Mom is a stay-at-home-mom from a fairly strict & conservative german family; she is also not the most insightful person, and parents mostly by her immediate emotions at the moment. Appearances and “what other people think” carry huge weight. Pre-illness, Party-girl deeply resented how they are not rich enough to “keep-up” with classmates, and resents mom not having a paying job. She was also very contemptuous of how Mom did not understand computers, money, current fashions and social trends, etc.

[QUOTE=Irishgirl]
She “despises” her mother because she is angry with her- if mum wasn’t ill things would be better, if mum wasn’t old/embarassing life would be easier, if mum dies oh-my-god-what-if-my-mum-dies!
[/QUOTE]

I think that sums it up right there. There is indeed anger. The big question in my mind is whether all that anger and contempt has really eroded the love that would make this girl care whether mom dies or not. I guess not, but it makes it easy to believe her when she says she doesn’ care.

**Anaamika **made a concise and very trenchant observation:

[QUOTE=Anaamika ]
If a 15 YO thinks her mom is a loser, I would bet your ass she thinks she is a loser, too, whether she’ll say it or not.

Teen years are where you start growing into a woman, and where do you look? Your own mother. And you push her away at the same time as you try to emulate her. She’s uncool and so old-fashioned but at the same time she’s your standard for what a woman should be, at least until you grow a little older..
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I can totally see there being some self-loathing going on in her mind. The marks and the big sister sure as hell don’t help. And to add furhter injurry to injurry, (carefull not to slap yourself too hard here - you’ve been warned) recently, maybe under the influence of meds, fatigue, or frustration with marks, or all three, Mom called party-girl the s-word. Yep, mom called her stupid. That went over like a ginormous spear right through the chest, it did. There resulted much door-slamming, crying, wailing , and what’s-the-point-of-even-trying-I’m-stupid-ing. I’m reasonably sure that wasn’t very helpful for party-girl’s ego, or her motivation, for that matter, in spite of the massive damage control effort mounted by dad.

Ok, I have to stop here for now. There are a few more points I want to address, but they will have to wait till after dinner and the 8-yr old goes to bed.

39

No no no, this advice if quite bang-on, imho, in retrospect. It’s just that I’m not sure what’s the best way to implement it, and I’m saying it won’t be easy.

40

My apologies. I mis-read your post as saying “SO far off the mark” which obviously gives a completely different different tone and meaning to the whole thing.

Let me throw this out. Some are claiming her behaviour is because of the illness, the hidden illness, her sisters achievements, or some other “reason”. And that could well be true.

And if it IS true, there is probably a certain approach most likely to work.

But, sometimes teenagers are just stupid, selfish shits just because. In which case, the solution to problem is probably different than if its a coping mechanism. Might want to keep that in mind.

Best of luck. And again my apologies.