[QUOTE=Larry Borgia]
:rolleyes: yourself. The fact that foreign fighters are a tiny percentage of Iraqi insurgents is common knowledge. I wasn’t aware until now it was even disputed by the right wing.
[/QUOTE]
If your house has a tiny residence of termites it doesn’t matter how “tiny” the population is because they can still do alot of damage.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
So if he lies about something as trivial as an affair what other kinds of lies must he have told during his presidency?
[/quote]
Being a politician, probably a lot. That has nothing to do with lying about an affair; the vast majority of people would.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
Thats the way life goes…one never truly rises up until one hits rock bottom.
[/quote]
Garbage. When you hit rock bottom, you tend to stay at rock bottom. And I note the typically American belief that it’s OK for us to commit mass murder because it’s for our victim’s own good.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
No we are a benevolent nation who decides to take action when others refuse.
[/quote]
America is a vile nation dedicated to fanaticism, greed, hatred and malice. We invaded Iraq and did what we did there because as a nation we are evil Not out of benevolence. Other nations refused to do so because it was a bad idea.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
Democratic elections for starters.
[/quote]
Which are a joke. No one except apologists like yourself takes them seriously.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
So why dont you figure out a better way?
[/quote]
There is no better way, except leaving before we do more damage.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
If your house has a tiny residence of termites it doesn’t matter how “tiny” the population is because they can still do alot of damage.
[/QUOTE]
But the foreign fighters aren’t doing a lot of damage. And they are there because we are there; we leave, they will leave, or die.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
More like compared to Bush Bill Cinton’s touch is only applied to stuff that he can benefit directly from. Maybe if Clinton had actually done something about Rwanda he would be worth more than mouse farts…
[/QUOTE]
There was rather more to the Clinton Presidency than Rwanda. The national surplus, for example. Or catching the people who bombed the World Trade Center.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
Clinton will always have the poop smear of failed foreign policy smeared on his face because he just sat around on his butt, and let the Rwandan genocide happen.
[/QUOTE]
How do you judge Bush’s actions with respect to the genocide in Sudan?
And if a president is willing to lie about a war, what other huge lies has he told that we don’t know about yet?
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Being a politician, probably a lot. That has nothing to do with lying about an affair; the vast majority of people would.
Garbage. When you hit rock bottom, you tend to stay at rock bottom. And I note the typically American belief that it’s OK for us to commit mass murder because it’s for our victim’s own good.
America is a vile nation dedicated to fanaticism, greed, hatred and malice. We invaded Iraq and did what we did there because as a nation we are evil Not out of benevolence. Other nations refused to do so because it was a bad idea.
Which are a joke. No one except apologists like yourself takes them seriously.
There is no better way, except leaving before we do more damage.
But the foreign fighters aren’t doing a lot of damage. And they are there because we are there; we leave, they will leave, or die.
There was rather more to the Clinton Presidency than Rwanda. The national surplus, for example. Or catching the people who bombed the World Trade Center.
[/QUOTE]
Wow you sure hate America…and I am not apologizing for anything America did or didn’t do. In fact I hope we triple the troop deployment and crush our enemies into a fine dust. Unlike you who sympathize with and wants to take a shower with our enemies.
And some economic surplus makes up for Rwanda?
Tell that to all the dead people…
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
He should have lied about having an affair; that’s no one’s business but his, his wife’s and the other woman’s. Better of course if he’d just said that it was no one’s business.
[/QUOTE]
Wrong. It came up is a sexual harrassment suit filed by Paula Jones. A lawyer can explain it better than I, but basically the law allows the accuser to establish a pattern of behavior, taking into account other “daliances” by the accused. This was viewed by women’s rights groups to be an important tool in achieving justice for women in the workplace. (I could be wrong about this, but Clinton might have actually signed it into law.)
I would agree with you :eek: if if the inquiry came from a reporter. But once he found himself in the courtroom he lied at his own peril.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
Wow you sure hate America…and I am not apologizing for anything America did or didn’t do. In fact I hope we triple the troop deployment and crush our enemies into a fine dust.
[/quote]
So you are calling for the extermination of the majority of Iraq ? And then expanding your genocide campaign into other countries ?
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
Unlike you who sympathize with and wants to take a shower with our enemies.
[/quote]
My opinion of America’s enemies depends on why they are America’s enemies. We do seem determined to make being an enemy of America the course of justice.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
And some economic surplus makes up for Rwanda?
[/quote]
Rwanda is mostly the fault of the Rwandans. The disaster of Iraq is mostly our fault. And while it doesn’t reflect well on Clinton’s positive accomplishments, at least he has positive accomplishments.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
Tell that to all the dead people…
[/QUOTE]
Why don’t you tell all the people we’ve killed about how noble America is.
[QUOTE=magellan01]
Wrong. It came up is a sexual harrassment suit filed by Paula Jones. A lawyer can explain it better than I, but basically the law allows the accuser to establish a pattern of behavior, taking into account other “daliances” by the accused. This was viewed by women’s rights groups to be an important tool in achieving justice for women in the workplace. (I could be wrong about this, but Clinton might have actually signed it into law.)
[/QUOTE]
I was speaking morally, not legally. And I have little concern for the accusations of a collection of Republican toadies and victims. And it’s not harassment if the “victim” is not only willing, but enthusiastic.
The opening paragraph of that screed in the OP is a case of the, “Sure I killed all those women, but I didn’t diddle them,” argument.
And it fails to consider the foreign point of view. Ask your friend, how much does he care about the leader of Pakistan’s sex life versus the leader of Pakistan’s likelihood to start a war? The leader of France? …of Japan? Really, the world’s perception of us is based in our foreign policy, not our leaders’ domestic crimes.
As for Iraq:
As for perception of America as weak:
Top marginal tax rates were far lower under Clinton than under Eisenhower or Nixon. The President doesn’t raise taxes, Congress does. And one sure way to run our economy into a depression is to go to a “flat” or “fair” tax where there is no disincentive to corporate heads to keep most of the money at the top. Your taxes & mine almost surely don’t need to go up. Ross Perot’s & Steve Forbes’s must go up, or the economy is headed to disaster, Latin America style.
I don’t think the writer of this really understands what war is (& how to win it) or what the left is (& he conflates all the left together). All emotion, no nuance; a bit like me at 14.
[QUOTE=Ravenman]
How do you judge Bush’s actions with respect to the genocide in Sudan?
And if a president is willing to lie about a war, what other huge lies has he told that we don’t know about yet?
[/QUOTE]
Everyone always says how Bush “lied” and got us in this war, but if that was true why hasn’t Bush been impeached?
Didn’t GWB tighten sanctions on Sudan? So I am pretty happy with that…notice how it is “something” done to stop the crisis there in Darfur as what Clinton did was “nothing” to stop the crisis in Rwanda.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
Everyone always says how Bush “lied” and got us in this war, but if that was true why hasn’t Bush been impeached?
[/QUOTE]
I think you know why not. It’s a political decision and the will is just not there in Congress, even post-2006.
As for Rwanda, I believe U.S. policy at the time was to leave any foreign intervention to the French, since it was their former colony. (The U.S. has had very bad luck intervening in former French colonies.)
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
Everyone always says how Bush “lied” and got us in this war, but if that was true why hasn’t Bush been impeached?
[/QUOTE]
Because the Republicans don’t care and the Democrats are weak.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
Everyone always says how Bush “lied” and got us in this war, but if that was true why hasn’t Bush been impeached?
[/quote]
I didn’t say he lied to get us into the war. I said he has lied about the war. Mission accomplished, Al Qaeda is going to take over Iraq if we leave, they’re going to welcome us with flowers, etc.
Before I go any further, let me be clear: are you saying that you think the crisis in Darfur is “over?” And that sanctions ended it?
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Rwanda is mostly the fault of the Rwandans. The disaster of Iraq is mostly our fault. And while it doesn’t reflect well on Clinton’s positive accomplishments, at least he has positive accomplishments.
[/quote]
Clinton has no positive accomplishments except positively dropping the ball during the Rwandan genocide. Nice to see that you can’t think of any other way to get the blame off of Clinton for Rwanda other than trying to shift the blame.
[QUOTE=Ravenman]
I didn’t say he lied to get us into the war. I said he has lied about the war. Mission accomplished, Al Qaeda is going to take over Iraq if we leave, they’re going to welcome us with flowers, etc.
Before I go any further, let me be clear: are you saying that you think the crisis in Darfur is “over?” And that sanctions ended it?
[/QUOTE]
No I don’t believe that the crisis is over nor that the sanctions will end it, but at least something is being done.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Because the Republicans don’t care and the Democrats are weak.
[/QUOTE]
No I think its because the whole “bush lied” is a lie that won’t stand up anywhere.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
Clinton has no positive accomplishments except positively dropping the ball during the Rwandan genocide. Nice to see that you can’t think of any other way to get the blame off of Clinton for Rwanda other than trying to shift the blame.
[/QUOTE]
Clinton had plenty of positive accomplishments. America was more prosperous and safer under his presidency.
Clinton doesn’t get the blame for Rwanda because it wasn’t his job to stop it. He was the President of America, not the world. Yes, it would have been a good thing to do, but he is in no way responsible.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
No I don’t believe that the crisis is over nor that the sanctions will end it, but at least something is being done.
[/QUOTE]
Something stupid, incompetent and evil. Something that has made us and the world worse off. That’s hardly a credit to Bush.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
No I think its because the whole “bush lied” is a lie that won’t stand up anywhere.
[/QUOTE]
Really ? Where are the WMD and fleets of drones ? He lied like crazy; given a choice between truth and lie, Bush lies.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
Clinton has no positive accomplishments except positively dropping the ball during the Rwandan genocide. Nice to see that you can’t think of any other way to get the blame off of Clinton for Rwanda other than trying to shift the blame.
[/QUOTE]
Really? He didn’t do anything but ignore Rwanda for eight years? Gosh, somehow I remember that differently.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Clinton had plenty of positive accomplishments. America was more prosperous and safer under his presidency.
[/quote]
Clinton just happened to be around when the gettin’ was good during the dot-com boom…and nothing more. He totally lucked out…and thats about it.
And you say safer? how about the WTC bombing? The USS Cole? The US embassy in Kenya? How do you figure safer, exactly? Our enemies are always plotting to kill us and our friends, and if it seemed safer to you back then because we were isolated from the violence then I don’t want to be the one to crush your matrix. Go ahead and insert your head back into the sand.
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Clinton doesn’t get the blame for Rwanda because it wasn’t his job to stop it. He was the President of America, not the world. Yes, it would have been a good thing to do, but he is in no way responsible.
[/quote]
He gets the blame for not doing anything whatsoever to stop what was going on there. He totally missed the oppurtunity on actually growing some balls and putting a stop to something awful and just…didn’t do squat. He failed not because he tried (which is at least something to work with) he failed because he didnt even try (which is disgusting).
[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
Really ? Where are the WMD and fleets of drones ? He lied like crazy; given a choice between truth and lie, Bush lies.
[/QUOTE]
Ask Georges Sada…
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot]
Really? He didn’t do anything but ignore Rwanda for eight years? Gosh, somehow I remember that differently.
[/QUOTE]
Ok what did he do that he actually can sign his name to?
[QUOTE=John Mace]
To be fair, though, it’s not like he just quit being president and Clinton had to come in an clean up. There was an election, and he lost. Although he sent the troops in after the 1992 elections (just barely), was he supposed to pull them out just because he was leaving office in Jan? You might argue that it was foolish to send them in originally, but it’s not evidence of lack of leadership that the deployment extended into Clinton’s term.
[/QUOTE]
Fair enough - my snarkiness in that regard was ill-placed. Consider it retracted.
Still, pinning Somalia on Clinton seems equally unfair - he inherited the situation, it wasn’t of his making. One is free to speculate that it could have been turned into an amazing foreign policy success, but I hardly think you can judge Clinton for not being able to extricate the nation from something he didn’t decide to get involved with.
[QUOTE=ManiacMan]
No I think its because the whole “bush lied” is a lie that won’t stand up anywhere.
[/QUOTE]
Eh? Saddam Hussein, we now know, had no WMDs and no connection to 9/11 or al-Qaeda. He never even bought nor tried to by yellowcake uranium from Niger. Bush took us into war based on lies. You know that as well as anyone, unless you know something the world at large doesn’t.