Who makes these rules?
I’d be tempted to reply, ‘So you’re saying boys are all spineless?’
When those times do occur, there are plenty of ways to mention one’s gender that don’t include pronouns.
(And I very much doubt that most of us know what our chromosomes are. We know what our bodies look like, and we know what our minds feel like. But unless one’s had their chromosomes inspected, nobody knows what their chromosomes are. People have occasionally been surprised, and not only in this area.)
There’s also a word – an acronym, really, for your first two sentences, which has the benefit of being shorter and more accurate. It’s a term that is even broader than “women.” The term is AFAB. It stands for “assigned female at birth.” It accounts for the fact that some intersex conditions are not apparent at birth, and that some people who are assigned female at birth wind up being trans, and don’t identify as female.
For me, AFAB is a useful term. It refers to how I was viewed at birth vs. my identity. For me, those are separate. For most women, the easier and more informative term is “cis.” Cis means identity and assigned gender at birth match. That’s all it means.
I get that some people don’t like being called that. But the term, or one like it, is necessary.
Think about the hypothetical most privileged person (this construct is used regularly) – The rich, straight, white man. We needed the “trans” counterpart for those constructions. So, rich, straight, cis, white man.
They do.
I think it’s pretty clear from an honest reading of this thread that no one is making these rules - this is a discussion of people’s preferences and how to best respect each other, and specifically in situations when a person’s gender or preferred pronouns are unknown. No one is asking you to take notes on what pronouns each individual person wants - these are general guidelines and best practices being discussed.
Why not “non-trans”?
Off topic, but notable. Back in the dark ages when I was learning design and prepress stuff, I made my own business card where right below my name, it said, “I’m the they in ‘That’s what they say…’ “
This is an anonymous message board. Jeez.
If(and I have been) I’m mis-gendered, I don’t give 2 shits.
But, I’m not a they. I’m one person. I’ll use they if it becomes the rules. I’ll call you she or he. If I remember.
But, Do Not ask me for fae/fa-er, em/er fox/furry or any of the countless other things. Umm. Not gonna happen
It’s all just too much.
If you don’t want to be called cis, that’s fine. We won’t call you cis. But the definition of cis means “assigned female at birth with a gender identity of female”. That still may or may not apply to you (if you don’t have a gender identity, then perhaps you aren’t cis). Just as someone may ask not to be called, say, “White” – that doesn’t mean that they’re not White by American cultural/racial standards (which, of course, are ridiculous and should be deconstructed, but that’s a different discussion).
Apparently, the whole class looked at him, puzzled, and he laughed when he realized what he’d said.
This is now our favorite family joke, though.
I think it’s a put down. I really do.
I don’t need any added lettering.
I don’t believe anyone in this thread has suggested you are. Why do you believe people are suggesting this?
They apply to everyone if either, the person’s pronouns are unknown, or you are speaking generally about an undetermined person.
The part of my post that you cut off says that people should use my pronouns if they know them.
I also said in my previous post that, of course, the gender neutral pronouns apply for the generic or undetermined person.
Are you saying it’s OK to misgender people as long as you misgender them as nonbinary?
I don’t.
Google defines Cis as:
Google defines Cisgender as:
Can you tell me what part of this definition you find derogatory?
I think non-binary people use it to say you’re less than.
(Remember, I’m not at all world wise about this. I just know how it feels, to me)
And your evidence for this claim is…
I have none. It’s my feeling.
I’d prefer to use nongendered words wherever possible. That should be the default, and I expect English to move towards nongendered pronouns over the next few centuries. Maybe it is an idea for which the time has not yet come.
I didn’t choose the term, I only learned it. (And don’t mind its being used for me.) But:
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Cis is shorter and easier to say.
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“Cis” is a positive framing. “Non-trans” is a negative framing.
Under most circumstances, you (and I) don’t; and neither do trans women.
But in the few circumstances in which it’s useful to distinguish, adding lettering for the trans women and not for the cis women others the trans women.