I thought that the scene you have spoilered was hilarious, but admittedly this was not at all the emotion I had anticipated feeling in all the episodes building up to this point:
Why I thought it was funny: In Star Trek: Next Generation, there was an all-too frequently used way of ending episodes, especially in the early seasons. Picard would beam down in a fit of pique, scold the wayward aliens or colonists, and they would usually agree to behave themselves in a proper Federation-accepted fashion thereafter. I used to call this plot device “Uh-oh, well now you’ve done it! Capt. Picard’s going to come down and give you a good talking-to!”
This is just what Sheridan does with the Vorlons and Shadows–gives them a good talking-to and makes them behave. It still makes me laugh to see the representatives of the Vorlons, who up to this point have been objects of mystery that leave a sense of glorious wonder when they reveal themselves to lesser beings, and the Shadows, who have been the stuff of nightmare, standing there shuffling their feet like contrite little children at Sheridan’s scolding.
It’s really not the way I expected the war to end.
Also, I think that there are some good story lines after this point–Whatever Happened to Mr. Garibaldi, and the Fall of Centauri Prime (not just the episodes by those names, but the plotlines leading up to and following them)–but everything had been building up so wonderfully toward the war for so long that whatever happened after it was over seemed rather anticlimatic.
It wasn’t so much Sheridan’s scolding but the fact that Lorien was standing behind him when he did it that sold the Shadows and Vorlons on adhering to their original purpose for remaining behind.
Why do I have the sudden desire to be a Lumati embassador?
And let me just say, it’s painful not reading the spoiler boxes in here. I watched enough of the show on broadcast to realize that it was great, but only got the chance sporadiacally, and I’m only working my way through season 2 on DVD at the moment.
Just checking in to comment on a favorite show. I first came to B5 by way of the ‘In the Beginning’ movie, which certainly ruined a few of the elements of season 1, but got me through it too. Knowing some background elements let me be in on the secret. So I usually suggest that as a way to start in on B5. Plus knowing that the production values would improve in the future also made watching season 1 bearable.
I’m rewatching the seasons again now, and getting through season 1 was a chore, but now that I’m into season 2 all is right with the world.
tracer, mentioned one of the changes that was necessitated by the changing of actors. I’d really like to know what else had to be changed from the “original vision” to what was shown due to circumstances beyond their control.
G’Kar lost his Na’Toth, was she supposed to be a bigger part? If Sinclair had still been the captian, what was supposed to happen in Babylon Squared?
I will admit to being into the epic, whether it be comic book style stuff or serius literature. B5 falls right in the middle of that spectrum.
Are there over the top lines? You bet your ass there are. I’m surprised no one thus far has done the Ivonova quote (you all know which one i’m talking about)…you know it’s cheesy, you know there would not be time for that sort of declaration before the fight, but damn, it feels good when she starts in and then the shit goes down.
But the story arc is masterful, the Shadow designs were fantastic, and the CGI was very good, especially in space battles.
Season 1 is slow, and I second what others have suggested- go back and watch it after watching the rest. Season 5 was weak, with a few high spots to it. But there were very few ‘weak’ characters in the overall story, and i cared about them all.
God, I want to close with a good quote, but there are seriously too many. One of my favs, and one not often used:
(Neroon, a Mimbari warrior, walking up to Delenn with a bloody force pike in his hands after beating a Ranger almost to death)
Neroon: There is now blood between us, and there is blood between the warrior caste and the humans. I do not think they would die for me. But they would die … for you. … Entil’Zha (title for commander of the rangers).
(throws down the weapon)
…
One of those things that in the context of the show makes you tear up. sniffle
And Neroon’s other telling quote, from just before the above scene: “Denn Shar, you said. To the death. And death there was. The death was mine. To see a human invoke the name of Valen, be willing to die for one of my kind when I was intent upon killing one of my own, the rightness of my cause disappeared. Strange, that a human in his last moments should be more of a Minbari than I. Perhaps it is true what Delenn said. That we are not of the same blood, but we are of the same heart.”
Marcus: “The next time … the next time … you want a revelation … could you possibly find a way … that isn’t … quite so … uncomfortable?”
Banquet Bear, hearing the opening narration from season three is exactly what got me hooked on the show. I’d seen the pilot and a couple of season 1 episodes and given up on the show. A friend talked me into watching. I vaguely remembered the original spiel, and was only half paying attention to it this time through. Then I heard, “It failed,” and they started in with that heavy beat and clips spaceships blowing up and shit. I got goosebumps. Been a fan ever since.
Well I figured if I’m gonna do this thing, I might as well go whole hog and suffer through everything. So far we’ve watched up through Eyes. The story is getting more interesting, but the acting is still Cheeze Whiz. Also, I don’t know why you are saying TKO was super suck and Grail was just “not necessary”; that Jinxo guy was possibly the worst actor I’ve ever seen, including high school plays. And since when is getting shot in the shoulder fatal? TKO might have been overly melodramatic, but at least it had some background on Ivanova’s relationship with her dad.
I pretty much loved the show until the Vorlon/Shadow conflict was resolved, and they all went off into another universe.
After that, the quest to rescue earth from President Clark was pretty good, but after that, I lost interest in the show. Besides the fact I felt that the story had come to a close and new stories weren’t necessary and were just dragging things out a little too far, it also got a little too dark for my taste.
I didn’t like seeing Garibaldi have to go through a relapse into alcoholism and get used by Bester, thus, alienating himself from his friends and betraying Sheridan. And then, not only does Bester use his powers to keep Geribaldi from getting revenge, but Captain Lochley stands in his way as well. Yes, she’s just doing her job, but still. Meanwhile Lyta, who was a major help in the war against the Shadows, pretty much gets treated like shit afterwards and because of that, and maybe partially due to what the Vorlons did to her, turns into a bitter, hateful person. And then there’s Captain Lochley. Nothing too dark here, I just didn’t like her much. And not because she’s a woman captain. I was just never able to take to her like I did with all of the other major characters. Oh, and I almost forgot poor Londo. Having that keeper implanted in him. Leaving him a puppet of the Drakh until he got G’Kar to kill him. Killing G’Kar in the process.
Yes, true, many of these issues were resolved by the end of the series, but still,
As the number of replies to a thread started by a B5 newbie goes to infinity, the probability that major spoilers will be posted with no spoiler warning goes rapidly to 1. You can bank on that.
If you look around the lurker’s guide, you’ll see a number at the top of each episode’s page called the P5 rating, which represents how the viewer community rated each episode on a scale of 0 to 10. Since this is a poll with self-selected respondents, you can’t draw any really scientific conclusions, but this is art, not science, so it’s all good.
In short, yes, Babylon 5 does get better. Season 1 is rated significantly lower than any other season–in fact, it’s the only one that’s rated below 8. Season 2 and season 5 both have ratings in the 8-8.5 range, and seasons 3 and 4 are both over 8.5. Interestingly, there’s no evidence that the ratings for season 2 and season 5 are different, and the same holds for seasons 3 and 4.
Now, seasons 1 and 5 both have a slightly higher standard deviation than the other seasons, but nothing wildly different. Here’s something really interesting: in each of the first four seasons, there’s a significant positive correlation between the average rating for a show and the number of votes, but for season 5, that correlation is actually negative. I take that to mean that the audience was expecting something as strong as the previous two seasons and was more vocal about what disappointed them than what they liked.
For what it’s worth, including the pilot as part of season 1 doesn’t significantly change anything, even though it’s the lowest-rated of any of the episodes.
Oops, sorry. Since it was aired on TV for everyone to see, has been off the air few years now, and is out on DVD, it didn’t occur to me to use spoiler boxes. Sorry.
However, I only gave away the last season or two, there’s a whole lot that happened before that which I didn’t give away.
Also, to be completely honest, I didn’t read through all of the responces before posting. If I had, I would have seen others use spoiler boxes, and then I would have used them myself. So, one more time, I’m sorry, and it won’t happen again. :smack:
So now I’ve finished season 2, disc 1. All I can say right now is, Geometry of Shadows was utterly, brain meltingly bad. I thought you guys said season 2 was supposed to get better.
To be fair, I did say if it didn’t catch your interest in the first few episodes of the first season you probably weren’t going to like it. I love the show but different strokes for different folks and all that.
I disagree. I hated the first season and refused to watch the show after that. I then caught The Fall of the Night and was hooked after that. It was interesting (for me at least) watching real political maneuvering which is something you didn’t see in Star Trek and Sheridan’s ‘apology’ was the kind of testosterone you never saw on The Next Generation. I actually feel sorry for people that try to watch the first season first and the first 1/2 of the second season. They were still struggling with their identity and would come out with crap like The Long Dark which could have been taken right from Star Trek.
Season 2 highlights: The Coming of Shadows, GROPOS, And Now For A Word, In The Shadow of Z’ha’dum, the last five episodes.
Personal opinion, but for me, the best of the best of Babylon 5 is the arc of Messages From Earth, Point of No Return, and Severed Dreams in Season 3. Second best is the same season: A Day In The Strife, Passing Through Gethsemane, Voices of Authority.
