The year is 22XX, the name of the place is...

…Babylon 5!

I had never really heard much about this show or knew anything about it other than the name and that it was a sci-fi cable show, but I just finished watching the first season and wow I really like it a lot! I feel like I’ve been missing out on something special, and I wonder why it isn’t more popular/better remembered than it is. I’ve heard that season 1 is actually the worst/slowest of them all and that it only gets better from there so I’m really looking forward to the rest.

Anyhow, any Babylon 5 fans around here? How would you rank it amongst all the sci-fi tv shows that have existed? How would you say it fares compared to other loved series like Battlestar Gallactica and Star Trek (any of 'em)?

No spoilers please though! You can talk about cast leaving or coming in, that’s fine.

Also, can someone help me figure out when/if I should watch the various TV movies that got made as well? I just realized I missed The Gathering, which was evidently a “feature length” pilot episode, with some various differences from the rest of the first season. Should I go back and watch this “pilot” now? I don’t feel like I missed anything and I wasn’t confused by starting with the “real” first episode of the season.

Anyhow, share your thoughts, feelings, reviews, and advice on how best to enjoy the series/spinoffs/movies!

Without giving any spoilers…Just be prepared for major changes as the seasons progress.

I enjoyed the series. But beware asking a lot of questions, though, as there are so many spoilers to avoid. I didn’t see the pilot until after I had seen the first season or two, so I wouldn’t worry about that. I wouldn’t watch “Thirdspace” or “In the Beginning” until maybe the third season or so. Watch “River of Souls” last, if at all. It’s the weakest of the TV movies. (Just my opinion.) If you’re familiar with the “Lord of the Rings” books, you’ll soon be able to tell that Straczynski is probably a fan, too.

Many fans, most of a sensible stripe. Hard to find… B5 just didn’t seem to foster a lot of fans the way some other shows did, and the community has dwindled over the years.

Welcome to our world, though, and if you liked the first season, holy cow have you got a ride coming. Most fans regard the first as weak… by the time you get through the third you’ll understand why. Have fun and report in from time to time.

Don’t worry about the pilot. Getting a summary of the plot is nice, but the show was drastically reworked before “Midnight on the Firing Line”.

Also don’t worry about watching most of the movies at all, except maybe “In the Beginning”, which you can safely do more or less anytime after Season 4. It’s really more icing than cake, as it fills in some little details here and there about stuff in the show.

The other movies are nearly superfluous. Watch or don’t watch as you will. But if you need firm cutoffs, save “River of Souls” until after the beginning of S5. “Thirdspace” takes place between Season 4, episodes 6 and 7. And “A Call to Arms” takes place after the series ends and is really more of a setup for the sequel series Crusade.

The ultimate B5 website is the Lurker’s guide. Be warned that the site is 15 years old and looks like it. Since there’s been nothing new in B5 in a while, it also hasn’t been updated in a while.

As for fans, there are a ton on the board, and it seems every year there’s somebody else who is running through the episodes. Actually, I’m a little surprised you hadn’t run into one of them, yet. There’s been active discussion on the show for nearly the entire run of the board. In fact, there was one thread (which I can’t find at the moment), where JMS, the creator of the show, created an account and posted.

While they’ve never been numerous, B5 fans are known as some of the most vocal - and annoying - in science fiction. The low numbers keeps them somewhat below the radar, but they’re always there.

Here are a couple past threads out of dozens (WARNING: may contain active spoilers):

Rewatching Babylon 5
What episodes from Season One of Babylon 5 should we watch?

RE: JMS posts.

Ok, my memory was a bit off.

JMS registered and posted regarding something about the SF writer’s of America and some internal politics. Did get into a tiny bit of B5 in the 2nd post and a “Yo Mamma” joke, though.

Here are the posts (1) (2).

Thanks for the info guys on the movies and stuff.

How would you rate it against other sci-fi shows? For example, I’ve seen all of Red Dwarf, TNG and Voyager, all of which I really liked.

B5 is my favorite sci-fi series of all time. The last season is weaker than the first four, I think. Funding issues forced them to try to wrap everything up in Season 4, then they got picked up for another season and sorta…winged it.

Londo Molari is my favorite character…but there are a lot of good ones. Ivanova may be the best female character in all of sci-fi.

I’ve been slowly making my way through B5 on DVD through Netflix this year. I had seen parts of seasons 1 - 3 many years ago but had never watched the whole series from start to finish.

Two things I would warn you about:

  1. If you are watching on DVD, you might want to hold off on watching any of JMS’s commentary episodes. While they’re chock full of good behind the scenes info on the show, he also talks a lot about stuff that happens in future seasons, so there are some spoilers. If you have a chance, go back and watch his commentaries AFTER the series is over.

  2. I ran into a bit of snag a few months back where Netflix was missing one of the season 4 DVDs (either DVD 2 or 3, I forget which.) I wound up having to buy/stream those 4 episodes from Amazon.

I personally wouldn’t suggest “In the Beginning” until you’re almost done with season 4. It gives away some MAJOR plot points. Some are ones that are revealed for the first time in that movie, and others are ones that are more slowly and subtly revealed in other episodes that you’ll see again in the movie, sometimes from a different perspective so you go,
“Oooh…I see…wait, what?!”

And as others said, don’t bother with “The Gathering.” It has a couple very small plot points that come up later, but they’ll get re-hashed for you so it’s not important. Several characters leave after that pilot, (the doctor, the telepath, the XO,) because of casting changes that got worked into the plot, too.

“Thirdspace”, as said, can be seen about 1/3 into season 4. And “A Call to Arms” takes place after the season ends, but AFAIK no real big plot points from Season 5 are spoiled, so really anytime after starting S5 is probably ok. It also served as a quasi-pilot for “Crusade,” the B5 spin-off which isn’t that great, and to top it off, the episode order on the DVDs isn’t the story order…and the order it was broadcast in was neither the story-order OR the order on the DVDs. I think somewhere is a website that lists the “proper” order to watch them, but it’s a pretty hit-and-miss show, overall. But it IS fun to watch Gary Cole do anything, so there’s that. :smiley:

Don’t watch “Legend of the Rangers.” At all.

And I’m surprised you made it through all of season 1 and still liked it. Most of the time, when people come in here saying they want to watch B5, they say something to the effect of"
“I watched a couple episodes of season 1, and it was awful!” and we tell them to only watch a short list of episodes from S1. But if you made it through the whole season (including the God-awful TKO and Infection,) then bravo!

Londo is arguably the main character. It takes a couple of watchings to realize how central and pivotal he is, but look at the very first words of the series… “I was there, at the beginning…” spoken by…

Haha, honestly, I didn’t think any of the episodes in season 1 were god-awful. Compared to some of the dreck I slogged through in watching all of TNG and Voyager… and even Red Dwarf, Babylon 5 has been surprisingly consistent and good. I guess it’s good news and happy portents considering that the rest of the show (at least up through season 4) is even better.

Very excited! Thanks for your points of view.

I’m a big fan of Ivanova and Ambassador Molari, but really, all of the characters are fantastic. Unlike most sci-fi that just has a few compelling characters where the rest are largely forgettable, B5 seems to strive to make all the characters likable or interesting, or at least conflicted, in some way. And no kids!!! (I’m a big fan of kids in general, in real life, but in sci-fi they are always universally terrible)

I hear that Sinclaire leaves and I kind of liked him but as a recurring guest that’ll be neat.

I hope you’re not expecting to see a lot of Sinclair. I believe he shows up in 2 or maybe 3 episodes later on. Certainly, he doesn’t get major screen time except in 2 episodes. What happens to the character is explored in more depth in the novel “To Dream in the City of Sorrows”, which may be the only non-dreck B5 novel. It helps that it was written by JMSs then wife and is considered more or less canonical. As a warning, if you do happen to read it, don’t do so until after about the 1/3 point of Season 4 if you want to avoid any possible spoilers.

I forgot to mention it, but a reviewer with AV Club has been going through B5 episode by episode. He wrapped up season 1 back in August and is set to begin Season 2 any time now.

Ok I won’t expect to see Sinclair much anymore. I’m sure the new guy will be good too.

If you already think the show is great after just the first season, you’ve got a real treat ahead of you. The second season is significantly better, and the third blows both of them away.

And while I’ll agree that Londo and Ivanova are both great characters, my personal favorite is G’Kar. But he really hasn’t hit his stride yet, in S1. When you get to “And they made a satisfying ‘thud’ when they hit the ground” (you’ll know it when you see it), about there is where G’Kar’s character is really fully developed.

And When G’Kar and Londo are sharing the screen. . .man, I don’t blink because I don’t want to miss a moment. Just wonderfully fleshed out, determined, growing, changing characters who are fated to forever be at each other’s throats.

“So, how long you think they been married?”

I think Mac and Bo should have turned out to be married. The ep came so close, it’s like one missing line.

Heh. I think you’ll be pleased.

I just finished the last episode of Babylon 5 a few minutes ago.

I am not ashamed to admit that I was sobbing as Babylon 5 was decommissioned.

If it’s not the finest piece of art I’ve ever experienced then it is at least the finest television show I’ve ever had the pleasure of watching.

Thank you to those of you here who prompted me to take a look at it just by mentioning it here and there in other threads.

What a phenomenal, phenomenal story.

Babylon 5 was one of the most ambitious shows in TV history, maybe the most ambitious one. But it hasn’t aged well. Like any pioneer, it created trends that those following handled in a more polished manner, so if you weren’t around during the pioneering stage you might not appreciate that aspect of it.

It was basically trying to make a novel into 100-120 hours of TV footage. Many shows are serialized and tightly plotted today, but in the mid-90s this was rare or unheard of. Babylon 5 is still unique in that the story was pre-planned from the start - there were some changes made along the way due to circumstance, but JMS knew the story he wanted to tell and it makes a remarkably cohesive whole. Compare to, say, LOST, which follows the same serialized structure, yet those guys had no idea what the overall plan was and just tried to mystery monger to add confusing layer on top of confusing layer to keep you from seeing they had no idea wtf they were doing. This allows really long term foreshadowing and payoff. For example, from the very first episode you see that one day G’Kar and Londo will strangle each other, but it takes 5 years for you to understand the true context, and what you think it means will change several times in that period.

It was also fairly unique in that it was a sci-fi show mostly about politics, rather than technobabble or pulp sagas. It took a more realistic and plausible tone because of that and was a lot more interesting than almost all TV sci fi.

That said, plenty of downsides. The dialogue and acting are often very theatrical, and off-putting for TV. This especially has probably not aged well.

The production values are often very low, although the show was a pioneer in that regard too and did a lot of good with its small budget. In fact, early in the seasons, the attention to detail to doing good physics, especially with the starfuries, makes it interesting to watch, more interesting than a much slicker looking silly star wars battle with airplanes in space. Some of the random starfury vs pirates battles, or the battle of the narn ship vs the shadow ship from extremely long distance are some of the most realistic potrayals of what space battles might actually look like.

There are some really huge dud episodes. Most of these are in season 1 and season 5. In season 1, the show was just finding itself, was far more episodic rather than serialized in nature, and was bumbling around for the first half of of the season. It starts to tighten up in the second half. Second through fourth seasons are MUCH better and tighter, although with a few huge clunkers mixed in there. But if someone started watching the series and some of the first episodes they saw were TKO and Infection, I could see why they wouldn’t give it a chance.

It was interesting too that the creator of the show (and a creator who probably had the most control of his show ever) was interacting with the fanbase on usenet regularly, which made it an interesting experience.

As a whole, I would say that it may be the most ambitious, unique show in television history. Other shows have handled the cohesive serialized story in a more polished way, but I’m not sure any of them ever basically set out to tell a pre-determined story over a set number of hours/years. There’s a lot to like about it. But you’d have to be very forgiving of the cheesiness of the acting, dialogue, production design, occasional total clunker episodes, etc.

For you, if you liked season 1, you’re already through the worst of it, so you’ll love what’s coming.