Plot to blow up 10 US airplanes over Atlantic - credible threat, or rumour-mongering?

Just a few words then I’m out of this debate.

I will never in a million years understand the mentality of a person who sets out to murder thousands of innocent people who have done them no harm. I will never understand what it is that drives another human being to do such a terrible thing.

I forget who wrote the following but it has a certain truth to it…

“On a battlefield, for whatever purpose and using any means, men fight againstmen, not women and children . There is somehonour in the former, but not the latter.”

“Such crimes are on a vast scale, evil as war is, at the human level it usually stopped at what men call crime, the deliberate inflicting of harm upon innocents”

Given that after the 7/7 incident, on 21/7/05 (UK date) another four with a similar profile found their materiel did not explode, that makes four in custody.

Richard Reid, who I suspect bottled out, and another Pakistani guy who hid his shoe bomb, mean that there are six people who have been confined for over 12 months.

Examining their contacts and asking a few polite questions would have provided quite a few people to watch - and a very good idea of the modus operandi to look for.

Because they say that the raids were precipitated by something in Pakistan, means that they were not … or perhaps they were … but want the first layer of double-think.

The timing might well be down to USA elections

  • more likely it is because we in the UK are in what is called ‘the silly season’, and it is handy to have something for the press to get their teeth into

We in the UK know something about infiltrating terrorists, after a slow start with our 7/7 juveniles, it is highly likely that mosques and pubs (sic) are heaving with recently recruited informers.

Let’s see, 6 x 4 = 24
The next round up will be about 96

This place has become conspiricy theorist central of late. So much for fighting ignorance. You can’t even have a real debate anymore, as every topic gets overrung by crazy internet conspiricy theorists.

Today the news reported the plot was found due to an English Muslim that heard of it. It and reported it.was known for months.

US Apparently Pressed Brits to Make Arrests Early

Think the Bushies might’ve just had an agenda to push, here in Lamont-is-soft-on-terror-and-so-are-the-Dems week?

They guys in Michigan who got arrested for buying a 1000 cell phones are now suspected of “targeting the 5-mile long Mackinac Bridge”, so the Bushies now have something big of their own to crow about.
Unfortunately, the article doesn’t say if plotting to wreck the bridge is what they were actually arraigned for, or how a thousand cell phones can be used to do that.
Are TracFones unusually heavy or something?

Heck, that’s nothing, those guys in Miami were gonna blow up Chicago. Soon as they could buy some boots.

I have a comment, however unnecessary. It is shameful and pathetic that this President can simultaneously invest our national resources and attention in an unnecessary war and away from efforts to attack the actual perpetrators of 9/11, while simultaneously diverting money away from our efforts to stop the very real threats that exist to this country, and yet some still try to suggest that his leadership is good for national defense.

It is pathetic that people can support the war in Iraq as some kind of deterrent to terrorist efforts, and then point to the emergence of an actual terrorist act as justification for that war.

It is pathetic that those who would suggest that military means are superior to law enforcement methods as a means to combat terrorism may point to a terrorist act that was detected and stopped by traditional law enforcement methods as support for their military activity.

I beg those who, in another thread, are bemoaning the loss of their party to make their voices heard. Stop those people who have absconded with your party from continuing to use it to run our country into the ground. Tell your family, friends and neighbors that enough is enough. Tell them that George W. Bush actually tried to weaken the very defenses we have been trying to develop to prevent this recent attempted terrorist act.

Just out of curiosity, and no offense meant to any Michiganders, but of what strategic importance is the Mackinac Bridge?

I missed this on the first read through:

Seems to me that the generals on the ground got micromanaged by Washington politicians here.

Yo’ve got to be kidding! Don’t you realize that it’s not merely about you? So, you would not want any restrictions on what you could bring on an airplane? Do you not believe that there are people trying to kill us? Do you think 9/11 was a one time thing? Do you not think that these latest developments prove that we need to be vigilant and take steps to protect ourselves? I must not be understanding you. (I hope I’m not.)

Does anyone hold these opinions above?

I’m pretty sure you’re not, and no, it’s not all about me. I guess I’m just wired in such a way that I’m simply not as as fearful about terrorists blowing up fake bottles of aftershave as most of the other folks around me seem to be. Don’t worry, though, when it comes time to get on a plane again, I’ll do everything the Security State orders me to do, like all the other good little sheep. Wouldn’t want to rock the boat, now, would I? Nanny knows best, and what Nanny says goes. Pay no attention to me, I’m just venting my exasperation a bit, because for some reason, I’m not sure why, I can’t shake this feeling that Nanny doesn’t always know as much as she claims to about things.

I fear friend El Kabong has received his own share of acoustic guitar blows to the head.

Oops. Wrong forum, I thought I was in the Pit. My apologies to El Kabong and the rest of our illustrious readership.

But that’s essential to his character!

LISA: Don’t you remember the story of “The Boy Who Cried Wolf?”

BART: Sure . . . Boy cries, “Wolf!” . . . Has a lot of fun . . . I forget how it ends . . .

So, just what would YOU propose. Take air travel for instance. Would you allow any changes that might encroach of our “freedoms”? Or would you serioulsy propose doing nothing, as I think you stated?

There aren’t any adequate defenses. A fully policed Festung Amerika, with a 1 to 6 police to citizen ratio and a total empowerment of any law enforcement official, at any time, on any basis…would not be enough. Such is the nature of determined terrorism, a man who is willing to die simply to hurt you is a formidable foe.

Sacrificing rights for safety is no more likely to be effective than sacrificing a ram on the steps of the Senate.

Okay, I’ll ask you the same thing. Again let’s just focus on air travel. Given 9/11 and the recent uncovered plots, what changes would you say that we make? What sacrifices would be reasonable? Is you answer “none”?

I’ll step up to this one. No, I don’t think we need to take steps because the steps were already taken. Law enforcement was all over these would-be Harbingers of Doom; as far as I can tell, the only reason arrests weren’t made sooner was because Scotland Yard wanted to give them more rope to hang themselves with.

Need to be vigilant? We are vigilant. The system worked. Bad guys were found, using LEGAL surveillance and other already-legal police techniques, and they were arrested before they could even have a dry run.

You keep asking what changes need to be made, as if this incident somehow demonstrates that the system is broken. But it doesn’t demonstrate any such thing.