It’s true that on a side job it’s mostly profit. I’ve actually had guys do side jobs in my vehicles, using my tools, even wearing my uniforms. They think that stuff is all free.
I can’t understand it sometimes. They just don’t connect the dots. I had a young guy training with me. We was right with me for a week; he saw me pay $2200 for a transmission, $800 for tires, $375 for his uniforms, hundreds of dollars for tools, $600 for cell phones etc. He was with me!
And you know a couple months later he saw me pay $2500 for some equipment, and later saw me charge the customer $6400 (not to mention the material and labor costs) and he was sure I made a quick $4000 killing. :smack:
A lot of contractors that I know charge a show up charge. Some a flat fee others caculate that fee at one hour. so if he shows up works 0.25 of an hour he will bill out at 1.25 hours. When the contractor sends out the bill it cost his the same to process a small bill as a large bill, the show up charge helps cover this.
Just went through a simular thing at work only it was a 4 inch line that had to be repaired. The water company’s shut off valves leaked through. You can not sodder a line with water running through it. Sounds like you were luck that he was able to get the water fully lturned off. He and you were lucky that it turned out to be easy.
Sometimes it does not go well and the contractor has to eat some of the extra cost. You get what you pay for.
I had an example of this 6 years ago. I contacted a real estate agent about selling my part of the old ranch. Met with her Saturday, and listed it with her that day. On Tuesday she call with a full price offer, and we accepted it that day. She got $21,000 for part of Saturday, some time Monday, and Tuesday. And the time for closing. I thought for a moment wow she is being over paid for about one minute. I wanted to list for $250,000 was willing to accept $200,000, but she insisted that I list it for $350,000 and I got it. Also there were a lot of things that I thought I would have to do during closing maybe as much as another $20,000. She got the buyer to not demand then. So she cost me $21,000 but she got me and save me $121,000. She was cheap.
OK, so I understand what everybody here is saying now, and I kind of agree.
But to make things easier with us common-folk, why don’t they just put on the bill “$135 to replace shutoff valve”. Instead of “1.25 hours labor @ $89/hour”, especially when I know they only spent 20 minutes on it.
Even if they listed a minimum charge of $125, a truck charge of $95, or whatever, I would understand the final price and not complain that they only worked for 20 minutes because the other charges would be clear.
I would have no problem with that, just give me a price for the work. But to only charge me for 3 times longer than they were there, makes me feel like I am getting screwed. If they never mentioned the 1.25 hours, I would never have blinked an eye or posted about it here. Seriously, I don’t know how the plumbing business works, I just know I got charged for 3 times more labor than the plumber actually did, for and nothing else.
It’s really semantics, but one way is easier to write a check for versus the other.
Because then you’d have started the exact same thread asking why there was a minimum $125 charge or what this $95 “truck charge” was and telling us you’re going to dispute it. Or you’d be raising hell that they charged $135 to swap out a part that costs $12 at Home Depot. (‘you’ or course being the general you…‘you’ wouldn’t do that as you stated)
Now you do know. Consider it a life lesson. When you call, ask for a quote. Don’t just have the first person you find come out. Get a quote over the phone. This person told you it would be $200 if everything went wrong, so your next question should have been “…and if nothing goes wrong?” to which she would have told you “then it would be our minimum 1.25hours + parts assuming it takes less then 75 minutes”
As someone upthread said, since most (all?) plumbers have a minimum time they charge for, as long as you have to have them out, it might not hurt to have them tackle another job you’ve been meaning to get done. Once they finish that 15 minute job you needed done, the next hour is essentially free (plus parts). Maybe you have them swap out the anode in your water heater or replace the washers in that leaky sink you’ve been meaning to get to.
It’s kind of funny. A few years back my parents were telling me that some friends of theirs used a plumbers and couldn’t stand they way they charged for their services.
They came in, told the homeowers that they were going to use their snake to try to clear the clog and that it was going to cost $50. Homeowners consented…Plumbers asked for the check before they started the work.
Plumbers come back downstairs and tell the homeowners that the snake didn’t work, they’re going to need to use their 50 foot motorized snake, it’s going to cost $75…we’ll need the check before we continue…homeowners write a new check. (Making up numbers)
This went on until the job was done.
The homeowners thought this was really bizarre, I think they may have even called and complained to the business about it.
My comment to my parents was that, yes, it does seem kind of odd, but OTOH, the business (probably almost) never gets a call from an angry customer complaining about how expensive their service was because no one is ever surprised by a bill three weeks later. No one ever gets a bill in the mail for $600. They were charged incrementally for each part of the job. They knew up front exactly what each ‘procedure’ would cost and at anytime could have stopped and sent the plumbers away if they felt it was getting too expensive.
FTR, I don’t think I would use a plumber like that, I’d rather just have the job done and get the bill rather then have to see it add up right in front of me. OTOH this is one of the big name emergency 24 hour type plumbers that advertises on TV and probably charges a ton and I’m guessing it’s just easier for them to collect as they go then to bicker with customers later. But if you want your toilet/shower/lateral cleaned out at 1am on Easter morning and you don’t know who to call because you’ve never needed a plumber before…
I get what you are saying and Joey P’s response was spot on. But you now realise that “the labor than the plumber actually did” is only a small part of the cost, right? Did you get that part?
The company should have been more clear on the pricing, perhaps. Last year (in a new-to-me house) I needed to have someone out to tell me why my furnace wasn’t kicking on all the time it was supposed to. I called several companies and a couple were vague about cost, which I understand, but I went with the folks who gave me a clear “worst and best case” scenario with cost ranges.
This is the sort of thing that will make you a more educated consumer, in the end.
It’s not only semantics. The company can’t give you an accurate quote if the only information they have available is what they have over the phone from a consumer who doesn’t understand the business.
Not only that, there’s the problem with the consumer that doesn’t understand how the process works. I remember, way back when, before I could fix furnaces myself, we were having our furnace at work fixed. After about 45 minutes the guy decided it needed a new circuit board. He came back an hour later, replaced it, fired it up and it was good to go. My grandpa (family business) threw a fit because he didn’t test that first. I never understood that, he was a smart guy, he could rebuild a car engine or replace a transmission so I was surprised that he didn’t realize that things needed to be troubleshot before they could narrow down the problem.
But I’m guessing a lot of service people run in to the ‘why didn’t you just do that the first time’ problem as well.
Also regarding getting a good quote over the phone. There’s a huge difference between calling in and saying “My furnace won’t turn on…I don’t know, my house is cold just come and fix it” and “My furnace makes some noise, then stops” and “My furnace turns on, the inducer spins, the flame comes on then everything shuts off and the circuit board is blinking X times, here’s the model number…what will you charge to fix it?”*
*Any takers on the diagnosis I was going for with this scenario? (Raindog excluded…way to easy for you)
Because they’re using a long-entrenched system of billing, and they don’t think about how it appears to the customer.
Yes, it appeared you got charged that way, and that’s a problem. Like I said above, it’s a problem of poor communication rather than a problem of over charging.
There’s a similar situation in auto repair. Almost all services are charged by the job, not by the clock. The billing unit is properly called a flat rate hour. It’s a unit of how much work is involved, not a unit of time, just as a light-year is a unit of distance and not a unit of time. Unfortunately, in the trade a flat rate hour is commonly called an “hour,” and more unfortunately many shops talk about or list on the invoice the flat rate hours for a job, under the term “hours.” So naturally if a customer is billed for an hour, which to him means 60 minutes of time on a clock, for a job which was completed in 45 minutes, he thinks he was overcharged (no one ever mentions the apparent discrepancy when billed for one hour if it took 90 minutes :)). But he actually wasn’t overcharged, because he was billed for the job and not for the time it took to complete it. A wise shop will make it clear that charges are for work performed, not for time, and not even mention the word “hour.”
This is a big reason to call out professionals even for small jobs that your buddies could also do for a 12 pack of beer - an expert knows what he’s doing, like a doctor or car mechanic or IT help guy. For a non-expert, it’s very easy to mistake the outward signs of “minor trouble I can fix myself with an instruction from the internet in 20 min.” and “big trouble looking just like it that requires special tools, special replacements and 45 min. of skilled work”, or “minor trouble that is caused by serious issues that have developed into a serious problem 5 feet down the pipe and spell certain doom in one week” or “sealing a pipe for the first time, missing one tiny bit and having to redo everything 4 months later, after water has leaked behind the tiles and caused 1 000 dollars of additional damage”
and so on. A professional doing it officially means up to code and you’re insured if something breaks; your buddies or yourself doing it means no code, and no insurance if anything goes wrong.
Also, hunting the cause: why did your pipe suddenly leak, or your thingy fail? Is it because your house is 50 years old and everything should be replaced before the thingy bursts inside the wall where you can’t see it? Is your water too hard and the chalk damaged the thingy and all the other thingies? (Did you ask the plumber? Did he tell you what do to do in the future for prevention?)
From the sound of things, it seems that the OP would have been okay with something like, “We charge $95 to come out and take a look, no matter what. So your cost will be at least that, regardless of what the job is.”
Now most people, when they think about it, should understand that tradespeople can’t just charge for their time, but a reminder upfront doesn’t hurt, plus then the customer has a better idea of what to expect.
I’m not saying that plumber was overcharging, but it never hurts to be very clear with people who aren’t familiar with your business.
I think Gary T and** thirdwarning** bring up excellent points. Contractors often do a poor job of building a case for value in both their pricing practices, and their ability to clearly explain the charges.
As a result, many contractors do a fine job-----and price their services fairly------ but do such a poor job pricing it and explaining it that a customer will often feel cheated.
I am glad I found this site - it helped me undestand the bill I just received from a plumber. The information you all provided reminded me of the costs of just running a business, much less the expertise required to provide good service.
Hypothetically you think you have the flu, you have all the symptoms. So its in the morning, you call out sick to work, then you hang around the house until the doctor’s office opens.
You call to make a appointment, spend some time on hold then wait some more for the Dr.'s secretary then she says the only appointment they have is in the pm. 20 minutes pass on the phone.
So you take it.
You hang around the house all day feeling like crp.
An hour before the appointment you take a shower, get dressed and bundled up because its cold out and then drive the half hour to the Doctors office.
You’re 10 minutes early thinking they will take you early, but of course they are behind so you sit there a half hour past your appointed time so now including the telephone call to make the appointment (20 minutes) :dubious:and the 1/2 hour drive and the wait time 40 minutes has just cost you a hour and a half! :smack:
So the nurse calls you in, you follow her to the exam room, she takes all your complaints down in your file, takes your vitals and after 10 minutes of all that she says the Dr. will be right in.
You sit there and wait another 1/2 hour until the Dr. comes in, you repeat every thing you told the nurse, he listens then says a lot of other people are coming in with the same thing so I cant give you anything for it just let it run its course. and that just cost you another ten minutes.
The receptionist wants her co-pay be it 5 - 10 - 20 - 50 - 100 dollars (on top of the thousands you’ve shelled out for premiums) or you don’t have insurance so you cough up $200.00 or more
So you’ve water a almost 3 hours so far and you still have the drive back home.
For?
NOTHING!!
Sad part is nobody complains! We just hand over our money for getting nothing.
But customers pss and moan and try to beat up the tradesman that spent a 4 year apprenticeship (the first year doing all sorts of disgusting work, if you’re tough enough to survive that, another 3 years of getting next near to minimum wages)
Then a two year journeyman ship to get your contractors license
Hmmm that’s 6 years, attorney gets well over a hundred but no guarantee of results and sometimes they tell you that up front while they are requesting a sizeable retainer.
Hmm plumbers on retainer? wonder if…
So there was two hypothetical scenarios that we’ve all been in
But when the plumber leaves - that water is back on, the toilet flushes, hot water works, the drain drains, gas stove cooks - yet we still hear we charge to much!
Not to mention the thousand(s) percent mark up on those designer jeans at the store in the mall!
Maybe the Dr. or the attorney has the answer?:o
Hello this is just my opinion. I was in a service type industry for several years; and owned a bicycle shop for few years.
I am glad I do not do it any more for 2 reasons1) the money was horrible 2) Despite the small amount of money made in that industry a large number of people were like this customer. Which wouldn’t be a big deal if not for the existence of point 1.
You really can’t win in service businesses a lot of the time:
I charged lower than average prices and:
a) Half the customers still thought that was too expensive
b) Half the customers were suspicious of the lower than average price
c) The other half would get get an estimate, bring it to the guy down the street and ask if he could do it cheaper.
d) The guy down the street thought I was an asshat(nowadays I agree with that assessment on this particular issue)
e) I was charging lower than average prices because of my lack of accounting skills and knowledge.
f) I didn’t make very much money, left the business and the guy down the street who understood how to properly charge for service is still in business - just like he has been for over 20 years.
:smack: