Okay, this is driving me BONKERS. SO bonkers that I am posting this with shaving cream on my face, since I once again just experienced this. This has plagued me for months !! Let me set it up here.
Basic normal bathroom vanity. Two knobs for water. Normal faucet type. I’ve had leaks in both cold and hot water faucets in the last few months, and have replaced the stems and washers. The seats have been fine in both cases.
Here is what drives me insane. I understand what I am hearing but don’t know how to fix this. When I turn the hot water on FAST, I get a water hammer. When I ease the hot water knob on, and it’s first thing in the morning like it is now, I hear the tone change as the water temp rises through the faucet. As this happens, the water flow slows to a trickle, and stops. I have to open the faucet more and more, to get water flow. I must say, our hot water is kept unusually HOT in my home, I’m sure this contributes.
Now, if I am hearing the water expanding the plumbing, how do I adjust the seat with my seat wrench to compensate for this expansion? How do I use this damned thing so it allows the hot water to flow?? None of the other faucets in the house suffer this issue in any way.
As I said, the faucet stems and washers are new, the seat looked to be in good shape so I left it. I can’t believe the seat would be the issue here. If I use the seat wrench to loosen it up, I’ll get a leaky faucet. :mad:
Faucet washers (and in some cases the valve stem itself) can be different for hot and cold faucets. Hot water washers are made of (I think) composition materials that expand much less as they heat up. Some faucet designs are more prone to the problem than others, and your unusually hot water may be contributing as well.
I do know that when I did maintenance for a property management company, and the residents would complain that the faucets would close up as they heated up, we just swapped out the faucet washers (which almost always had been recently replaced by the residents) with the “hot water” variety, and the problem would go away.
Hit your local home repair center, or better yet a plumbing supply outlet, and see if you can get some of the “hot water” washers to fit your faucets. It’s pretty easy to do, and worth a try.
It is most likely a problem with the rubber washers you replaced. Were they the kind with a flat side and a cone-shaped side? If so, try replacing them with ones which are flat on both sides. They have a hard side and a softer side. The softer side goes towards the seat.
If not, there are different thicknesses. See if you can find thinner washers.
Okay, you’re saying that the hot water flow slows to a complete stop? As in, “Hey, there’s no water coming out of this faucet”? I don’t think even the hottest water could cause your pipes and faucet fittings to expand enough to close off a whole 3/4" wide solid metal pipe. Cast iron and steel are pretty stable materials. I think you’ve got something else wrong in your whole plumbing system, that it’s not just the faucet and the washers.
Hammering, whining, and moaning noises coming from pipes means air in the pipes, which means something ain’t right somewhere. There’s a pipe or another faucet fitting not sealed or something, so air is getting in. And perhaps that giant air bubble created somewhere in the pipes when you turn on the bathroom hot water is preventing the hot water from traveling up to your bathroom.
Me, I’d spend the 50 bucks to have an actual plumber come look at it. If you’re worried about getting stuck with a humongous bill, just make it clear to him that you just want him to make a diagnosis.
The heat from hot water can certainly expand washers and other innards of a faucet enough to virtually cut off the water. The clearances inside a faucet are quite small, especially when the faucet is only opened slightly.
Air in the pipes won’t cause this symptom. Air produces sputtering and hissing/spitting noises from the faucet being used.
Water hammer is caused by either excess pressure in the system, or pipes not properly supported and being allowed to move around.
If you have city water, you may or may not have a Pressure Reducing Valve. If you are on a well you will almost certainly have a PRV. It should be set to about 50 lbs. Excess pressure can cause hammer.
Sometimes, even tho’ all is well in the PRV dept., water hammer can still occur. A good fix for this is to install an arrestor. This is either a foot or so of pipe installed vertically on a horizontal run, and capped to trap air, or a store-bought version which is shorter and has a plunger mechanism inside. An arrestor can usually solve the problem of loose pipes when the pressure is set properly.
Air cannot enter the system from any source in your house because it’s under pressure. An open faucet will leak, not draw in air. Air can only get in when you turn off the water, say at the main and open a faucet or two. The water draining out of the system is replaced by air, which gets trapped when you close the faucets and repressurize the system.
The hammering sound when a faucet is being opened is actually not water hammer. Although similar in sound, it is really a chatter, and is caused by a different dynamic. It can usually be cured by tightening or changing the rubber washers at the faucet, as I recommended in my prior post.
RJK and Nut, you both sound like you’re close to the mark. I’ll go to the plumbing supply place in town and find hot water washers. To answer the query, no it’s not a conical shaped washer, it is flat on both sides. I didn’t realize that one side might be harder than the other, I will investigate when I get home from work. Thanks !!!
Ducky?..tee hee, you are SO rarely off the mark my dear. Yes I agree, if the damned water was hot enough to make copper piping swell to the point of closure, it would be melting the pipes ! It is as our fellow Dopers have surmised, I’m sure. Every time I change the washer, it works GREAT for like a day. After a few hits of hot water, it begins to have a problem. I’ll keep y’all posted.
I bet if you take the hot water faucet apart again you’ll find that the washer is lose. Perhaps you need a slightly larger one. I’ve never heard of a different washer type for hot versus cold. But I have had a bad experience after buying a more expensive hard rubber washer … it never sealed properly and had to replace it with a softer washer. If this is an older faucet that has had many replacement washers you should reconsider replacing the seat. With the right tool it is not hard to replace and is relatively inexpensive. It’s difficult to tell when the seat has worn out without comparing it to a new one.
I’ve become my father. I own a Seat Wrench. And, it is really cheap to replace the seat but you know what? My gut feeling ( and, I’ve a tremendous gut so I’m fulla feelings…)is that it is indeed the temperature-specific washer.
I have to admit, I’ve been following this thread since this morning when you were still full of suds. Reason being…I am a property manager. I am accustomed to weird problems.
If you really don’t want to grow a beard, you may consider replacing the entire faucet assembly. I say this with some trepidation…
I used to try to replace worn out parts only to find that before I even got back home that there was another call on the answering machine.
My solution…
If the damn faucet doesn’t work: replace it.
If the damn water heater doesn’t work: replace it.
Sure, I can replace washers and seats for less than a dollar, however if the cold problem has a problem, the hot side will be next.
For $7.92-9.50 including shipping, I can replace the entire works [washerless acrylic lavatory faucet]( I know exactly because I just looked it up). It doesn’t take me much longer to replace the faucet than it would the washers and seats. For me the difference is that I don’t have call backs.
If seats, washers etc. turn out not to be the problem, then call a plumber. I’m gonna guess that if this is a new problem as it appears, that replacement is the answer.
Well, prior to my soapy sudsy rant of this a.m., I HAD replaced A) the faucet stem. This is the guts of the faucet. B) The washer. Replacing the decorative knob is irrelevant, the knob doesn’t control water flow really- it’s just the means to an end. Next stop is to replace the seat- but I STILL LOVE the heat-sensitive washer theory.
I can’t wait to figure this out. A loaf of home-baked banana bread with chocolate chips to the person who guessed closest to the actual solution !!
Now now, Zyada, nobody likes a wisenheimer. Well. I do, but some have problems with 'em. I KNOW Unca Cecil covered it way back when.
I went to the local hardware store, where they informed me that there is no such thing as a non-expanding washer. I didn’t have the heart to tell them about the Straight Dope; I just nodded and smiled like an encephalytic idiot. Sometimes that’s just the best way. I would have hied myself on over to the real plumbing supply house but life got in the way and instead I had to go pick up the kids’ babysitter at the garage because she blew out a tire. A good deed to be sure, but I ran out of time on the whole washer issue.
Thank god today is another day. Why do I find it so comforting that I have a worry as small as this one to spend my time on? Takes my brain away from the really big worries. Like getting on a plane next Wednesday and flying to LAX from NYC…
Give up not. It is the Dark Force. Triumph over it you will.
Take the piece with you to the hardware store. Tell Hardware Man[sup]TM[/sup] the problem you’re having and ask him to match up a flat washer with it.
Whose catalog did you look it up in? Home Depot’s cheapest lavatory faucet is around $30-$35. I know because I had to buy one a while back.
A washerless faucet doesn’t mean it’s not going to leak. Instead of a washer, it has a rubber cone. A half-moon metal insert above it will either allow the water to enter or block it, depending on its position. The cone can come apart or rot. So what’s the advantage of a washerless one?
I get most of my plumbing supplies from Maintenance USA. The faucet in question is a Pro-Plus lav faucet, part #114515 Page 128.
I didn’t say there was an inherent advantage with a waterless faucet, they seem to last about as long as a washered faucet. The advantage I find in rentals is that tenants tend not to try to over-tighten them, thus wearing out the washers. They have a definite stop.
The 7.92 quote is for ordering 10 or more at a time, the 9.50 is 1-4. They pay the shipping, although their minimum order is 50.00. Great Folks, by the way. They carry most anything you’d ever need for home repairs and have enough locations to get items to you next day in most cases.
I’m not worthy. (((Sob))). Or, as my Master would have said,
Take the piece with you to the hardware store. Tell Hardware Man[sup]TM[/sup] the problem you’re having and ask him to match up a flat washer with it. **
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Which one of you knuckleheads had the job of reminding me to TURN OFF THE WATER PRESSURE IN THE HOUSE before removing the stem and washer assembly???
Jes’ messing’ with ya. I shall return both hither and anon.
squish squish squish squish squish squish squish squish squish squish squish squish squish squish squish squish …
And, it is really cheap to replace the seat but you know what? My gut feeling ( and, I’ve a tremendous gut so I’m fulla feelings…)is that it is indeed the temperature-specific washer.